Suggestions wanted !!

Hi all. Alee has asked me to post this as he's been helping me with a problem with one of my roses. Thank you for all your help Alee, i really appreciated it !! I apologise beforehand for this long winded post !! Ok, onto the problem at hand. One of my climbers has gone down hill (Angel Face) and Alee has suggested it may have been due to my lack of knowledge as a novice and to the amount of well rotted manure and blood and bone i planted my first 5 roses with. When they arrived as bare rooted roses, i placed them in pots as i didn't have a garden ready and the lattice i wanted the climbers to climb up was sadly in need of repair. In between time, the roses i potted were doing wonderfully well on the combination of rose potting mix and manure with a little blood and bone i gave them. I cleaned up all the herringbone fern and small shrubs from the garden and then dug in a fair quantity of that well rotted horse manure which i can get in any amounts. Being a novice and not having time on my side to have a garden prepared, i planted 5 roses into the garden...2 climbers and 3 ground covers. I incorporated the manure as the soil in the garden is very sandy due to the original owner building up the yard so the water will run off in the monsoon season. Unfortunately, water just beaded up on it and wouldn't penetrate the soil, so that is the reason i dug in the manure to allow water/air to penetrate. When i planted a new lawn around 2 sides of the house, i had 8 truckloads of soil removed and replaced it with 20 cu. mtrs of good topsoil. My Angel Face looked good for about 3-4days and then started to wilt and looked a bit sad. A few more days ensued until Alee phoned me (twice!!)....the man is incredible !! Thank you again Alee. He suggested my AF may have had too much nourishment from the manure etc. He recommended i gently remove it and wash all the soil from the roots and place it in a bucket of clean water for about 12hrs and then change the water and soak for another 12hrs. After that he suggested i repot it into clean sand to see if the rose would take hold. I think his reasoning was to try and "de-tox" my AF.

Removing the rose from the ground proved more difficult than i thought and i must have created more damage as the roots were so fine even tho i was extremely careful. What i found down in the roots was a grub that is commonly called a "cane grub". Millions of $$ are lost up here every year to the sugar cane crops due to this pest. It's real name is the "grey backed cane beetle". The cane toad was introduced to control it way back in the 1930's or so i believe and little research was done. The toad can neither dig down to the roots to find the grubs and can neither jump high enough to catch the beetles when they hatch out. The devastation the toads have created is now history !! This grub's sole purpose is to eat the root system out from under any plant that takes it's fancy. Simon has suggested i mulch with straw of some description but i'm worried about this grub. Turn over a compost heap here and you can collect them by the handfuls at times !! I have attached a photo of a cane grub i found on the internet. My son works for a rural supply company and i'm sure he can get his hands on any amount of pesticide to kill these grubs but i'm worried about the effects on my roses....any ideas ???

Instead of potting my AF into sand as Alee has suggested, i opted for a good quality rose potting mix i had here as i didn't want to disturb my AF anymore than i had to if it survived in the sand. Due to the damage from the grub and my clumsy hands, i'm sure the root system has been damaged, so i pruned the canes (2) back to about half as i didn't think the root system could feed all those leaves. Was i correct in doing this ?? If i lose the rose i'll put it down to experience but i have to say, my learning curve is going vertical at the moment !! I have a spare climber here to replace the AF so i chose Papa Meilland as i saw it in Alee's photos and reasoned that if it could grow in the Maldives, it might do ok here. I redug the hole where AF was and planted the Papa Meilland in it's place but rather than use more manure etc. around it, i back-filled it with the rose potting mix. Was this ok to do ?? I still have the other side of my carport to plant up with the rest we bought and to repair the lattice on that side as well.

I received an email from Simon explaining the vageries of Angel Face and it's susceptabilities to black spot. He was right on....it already had BS on some of the leaves. I bought a Yates product on the weekend called "Rose Shield" that is an insect spray as well as a disease spray all- in- one. Is it too early to spray my young roses with it yet do you think ?? I have attached some photos of the AF after i removed it and placed in the bucket of water as well as a photo of Pincushion that was growing only a few feet away. Once again, i apologise for the long winded post but i'm hoping some of you wonderful rose experts can educate me a little !! Cheers...Dave.

1)Rose in bucket
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2) Root system
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3) Note the droopy leaves
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4) Another rose (Pincushion)growing near it
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5) And finally...a cane grub
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I had an infestation of curl grubs years ago and they killed over half my standards along the front fence prior to finding out what was wrong with them

How did you control them Estate ??

Dave, lets start from scratch.
How long have you had the roses(AF) the problem child, where all the roses bought at the same time.
Where they all planted at the same time and same soil/media/ potting mix.
The picture of AF tells me she is not this years bare rooted plant, maybe last year.
The long new growth is good, you have what people call transplant shock.
The young growth that you have is only liquid not wood, soft tissue, it is like when you transplant any living thing, there is shock
Cut it back to about 2/3 buds from the yellowish wood, place it back in the desired position

From the picture the, soils /media did not come in contact with the roots, did you plant all the soil out of the pot along with some other soil to let it get it's legs

The above is said on looking at 2 of mine, I had no growth, THE roots did not have contact with soil.

Dave on the thing about bugs, your son should be able to find the chemical that kills your grub, down here we us "chlorpyphos" for nasty one's, great on locusts. This will not effect your plants
Dave not sure you use chemical's, but the site we use regular is called "pestgenie", your son will be able to find it you can't, it is commercial and home garden usage on it. Hope some of this helps. Dave, PM me further if you would like.

Hi Dave, so glad you're getting all that help here! Good luck with AF, hope it recovers but it probably will. I have Cl AF too on an arch, she blooms her head off and is a very pretty, sweetly perfumed thing. BUT OH! yes, a blackspot magnet!
Val

Dave, after the first chat with you, I thought the plant was in much worse condition and it was all droopy and hopeless. With the pictures I think the plant is in good shape. Follow what Roseman has suggested and there's a very good chance that everything will be OK. Good Luck.

IMO only if it was a bit droopy I would give it a bit of a prune Yes even being a climber it will get good growth eventually, as they say rome was not built in a day

Alee wrote:Dave, after the first chat with you, I thought the plant was in much worse condition and it was all droopy and hopeless. With the pictures I think the plant is in good shape. Follow what Roseman has suggested and there's a very good chance that everything will be OK. Good Luck.

Agreed

All those fine little roots are feeder roots. They are a very good sign. It's like I said in the PM Dave... often with roses in the first year they sleep, in the second they creep and in the third year they leap. You did the right thing to reduce the top when you transplanted it. If you reduce the roots you need to reduce the shoots... this is something I learnt from bonsai people and it serves me well with a lot of different plants.

I will second that.

Do you mean i did something right for a change ?? Wow !!!! Alee, when i saw it drooping i got worried, that's for sure. I now have to learn about levels of droopiness !! What i was worried about was that if i waited for a few days more to see what would happen, it may have been too late. I have to learn and i thought this was a good exercise. As i have said before...my learning curve is going vertical at the moment !! Anyway, time will tell if the rose will survive it's ordeal. Thinking back, i guess it would have been doomed anyway if i hadn't discovered that cane grub in amongst the roots. I'm sure i'm going to have more disappointments along the way and if i lose a rose here and there i'll put it down to experience. I'll keep everyone informed as to my sick patient. Thanks to all for their help !!!!

Dave, without many

the main 2 rules for planting roses (potted or bare rooted):

1. water them well before planting, the roots of bare rooted ones should be still wet when set in.
2. trample them well

both will help the roses to get a good contact to the soil. I hope your 'lady' wil recover.

cheers Bernhard

Dave, how's your Angel Face doing.

Hi Alee. Angel Face is still surviving but still on the very weak side. All i think i can do is to give it all it requires at ths stage...water and sunlight. We have had and are still having the usual hot, dry northerly winds for this of year so i might try to find a sunny place out of the wind for it. It's hanging in there mate !! Tough little critters ain't they !!! It is the only rose i have that seems to be getting blackspot also, so i lightly sprayed it on the weekend. I phoned Roseman yesterday and had a fantastic time talking to him...for hours !! Lol. I'm really looking forward to visiting him in a few weeks time. I hope all is going well for you and your roses Alee. Cheers...Dave.

Hi all. I just thought i'd give you an update on Angel Face. I have just been away on a trip down south for 10 days, meeting up with several of the people on this forum, and when i got home yesterday i found that my "sick" patient has produced new shoots which is a very good sign. Considering what it's been through, i'm suprised by its resiliance !! I dug it back out of my garden, hosed all the soil from its roots, stuck it in a bucket of water for 24hrs and potted it using some potting mix. After about 2-3 weeks it looked no worse so i started feeding it some weak liquid manure that i make here. As i said earlier in this thread....tough little critters ain't they !!!!

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Good News Dave!!

You should see my Cl Angel Face, it's a disgrace. Every leaf has blackspot and there aren't that many left. There are canes dying too. I reckon it will have to go

Hi Val. Awwww...send it up Val and i'll give it some TLC My Angel Face looks like it's going to be ok. One of my climbers, Papa Mielland, has grown 10" in the 10 days i was away on my trip. Ok, i know this climate here will have it's disadvantages but it has its advantages too as all my roses seem to grow very fast here as long as you can keep the food/water up to them.