Seed germination,,new to the forum

[wphvet]

Hi everyone,
Recent first time attempt at seed germination.Used open pollinated hips,randomly from Teas and HT's, Ripe hips, non floating seeds, 2 mths in the fridge in wet peat moss, have planted half in seed raising mix, the rest are in the laundry in their original bags. I am yet to observe a single seed sprouting, they remain hard and dark brown. I'd love some guidance re have I done something wrong etc. Should seeds be sprouting prior to planting? Should we refrigerate our seeds here in Aus? Ifollowed guidelines from US.
Many Thanks,
Stephen

[Admin]

I think the main thing to remember is that every variety's seeds will germinate differently... this is one of the main reasons to germinate open pollinated seeds. It gives you a chance to suss out how each variety will behave and how 'germinable' their seeds are. I have about 1000 seeds in this year and so far the only ones that have come up are my multiflora rootstock seeds, open pollinated 'Papageno' seeds, OP 'Baby Faraux' seeds, OP 'Gold Coin' seeds, and a few OP flower carpet seeds. Each of these I am assessing the germination of. About 300 seeds are up so far... so I'm only about 30% up. None of my deliberate crosses have come up yet. My theory on this is that open pollinated seeds are usually self pollinated and so the genetic combinations are more compatible than the combinations I put together in a deliberate cross... it may therefore take some time to sort out these genetic incompatibilities.... if at all!

My advice is just sit tight, keep the seed trays/pots moist, and just wait and see. I had one tray of spinosissima seeds take 12 months to germinate... and even then I have only had two out of about 50 seeds come up. It sounds like you have done everything right so far. If it was me, I would sow the rest of them and just be patient. Refridgeration is necessary for most rose seeds. They contain substances that induce dormancy and these must be leached out before germination can begin. This usually occurs whilst in stratification but will continue once sown. Some warm climate rose seeds do not require stratification. That's why it is often a good idea to do about 4 weeks of warm stratification first and then put the ziplock bags in the fridge.

Keep us posted and share you pics as they appear.

On the floating thing... it's a good idea not to bother with this... sometimes even floaters can germinate and to be honest it doesn't take any more energy to stratify them and sow them... so I just sow them all.

I'm also a big advocate of letting the seeds germinate after sowing and not in the fridge. It's very easy to damage the emerging radicle and if you don't have to touch the roots/shoots they can just run and not experience any set-backs.

[rosemeadow]

I have three seedlings up of a cross of Benjamin Britten ( seed parent ) and Fourtune's Double Yellow ( pollen parent ), and at least one of Kathryn Morely with the same pollen parent. This is my first time Stephen, oh except for open pollinated I did some years ago, and latter lost when I moved it during a dry period.
Simon, I think you are very right about planting before they start to grow so you don't damage them. It is quite hard to plant them once they have.

[Carole]

Simon, By what you said then the ideal way of doing seeds would be to sow them in a flat - place that in a plastic bag - put the whole thing in the 'fridge for about 6 weeks. then placing the tray in the warmth. My strongest seedlings did not go in the 'fridge at all, I shall be trying different ways now my cubby house is up and running.

[The Lazy Rosarian]

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These are some of Carole's seedlings so far

[Admin]

Carole... that would be right... I don't know many people who have the space to put whole flats in the fridge though and now I have switched to foam boxes I'd need a cool room You would also increase your percentage of germinations drastically if you placed them all in the fridge though Carole. Those inhibitors need to be leached out before germination can occur and they are adapted to doing this while it is cold... but, as you say, some will germonate without it. This is why warm stratification is a good idea before cold stratification as mentioned above. You do the same thing, as cold stratification, just leave them in a warm dark place instead of the fridge and then after 4-5 weeks warm stratification you put the whole lot in the fridge to get the ones that don't germinate.

Karen.... I would love to follow the progress of your 'Benjamin Britten' x 'FDY' seedlings! This sounds like an EXCELLENT cross.

[Admin]

Are these the multiflora seeds I sent you guys? If so I would not be judging all rose germination from these guys... I reckon these guys would germinate any way you tried it

[Carole]

No Simon, that tray is Bonica, I checked today and have 17 through

[Admin]

'Bonica' huh very nice!

[wphvet]

many thanks to the forum for excellent advice,
regards,
Stephen

[Ozeboy]

Carole, good choice to collect seeds from Bonica, you could have some very healthy seedlings in that lot.

Some of my open pollinated Gloire de Rosmaines seedlings germinated last September are 20" tall now so they do grow quickly.

[Admin]

Have you got any pics of the 'Gloire des Rosomanes' seedlings Bruce? I've been thinking this would be an excellent choice for healthy Australian roses for a while now because I like China roses. Have been looking for Slater's Crimson China as well... putting a budwood order in soon so will try and get it I think.

[Ozeboy]

Sorry Simon I do not have a camera but they look very robust. They were left out all winter and have been exposed to about 10 frosty nights.
Some of the HT's died though the few Iceberg seedlings that survived are doing well. Roses have to be tough to live here.

The Brindabella Bouquet blooms have improved, white with a pale pink centre and darker pink bud shield petals. It's a multiflora with a Tea rose look.
Could be interesting to breed with as it does not get any blackspot at all.
What a great experiment to try identifying and isolate the gene for no blackspot. Perhaps its a conglomeration of genes rather than a single.
I hope it's a recessive single as they are much easier to work with.
Only dreaming.
Will keep an eye out for hips and pollen.[u]

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