Rose nomenclature - Split from Rose Breeders Database

sorry guys I hit the wrong button......I wasnt quite finished
You can sell Deljaunor .....just dont use the trademarks DELBARD and FRANCE LIBRE on ANYTHING in reference to Deljaunor
Once again you can use your own Cultivar name for Deljaunor or any new trademark that you invent

PDR also = 'Eden Climber' which I believe is not trademarked All just seems like loop holes to me

There is a side to all of this that hasn't been mentioned that is important to me. That's ethics. Just because we CAN challenege something and probably win does that mean we should? None of this meant anything to me until I started breeding roses about 8-10 years ago. I did not know how much time, effort, and thought went into it and in that time I reckon I have thrown away more than 1,000 rose per year because they did not meet my expectations (I sure don't want, in years to come, to visit forums like this and see people banging on about how bad such-and-such a rose I bred is that's for sure ). Since then I shudder to think how much money and time I have spent acquiring breeding stock, paying for memberships to this and that, researching for hours and hours on end etc etc... Then I started meeting other well known breeders around the world and hearing what they think about this whole issue. They don't paint a very positive picture of it... maybe it's because they are mostly Americans who have, and still are, been hit harder than most by the GEC... I don't know. This is alink to just one recent discussion had on RHA: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Some of these guys are very experienced breeders, far more so than me and whom are my mentors in a sense, whilst others tend to make it an emotive issue. Easy to do when you put so much of yourself into breeding roses... it's an insult to have happen what did happen in the case discussed above.

This is a discussion I had with a number of the above people and is probably when I first started thinking about this (the Simon in the post is me): [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . Over the years I have become good freinds with these people and have spoken at length with them about it... their approach has been as varied as the roses they breed.

One of the links mentioned in this article, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is what REALLY started to get me thinking about it and asking questions... You mentioned this name, Tony Avent, to me before Jeff... I couldn't remember where I had heard it but then it clicked to me later on.

The ethics of it is VERY important to me. In a perfect world I would like to think that I can approach David Clark and say I would LOVE to sell your new DA x Tea seedling in my nursery, let's talk turkey and come up with an arrangement. It's when we start talking about the legal side of things that everything starts to get a little grubby for me. Legally I could take his rose and sell it now but to me the question of whether I SHOULD do this is the more important one.

It's all very very interesting... frustrating but interesting. As I mentioned to you earlier though Jeff, I think we need to just get to the point... cos in this case the point is well worth discussing...

Jeff, I believe anyone who is successiful breeding an outstanding rose should reap the rewards. It is a long process so protection is necessary or only a few hobbyists like myself would continue.
There is also something in a name that appeals and sells roses like the name, 'Iceberg'. No doubt the nursery that has the right to sell a protected rose goes to a lot of trouble merchandising and advertising a name so will be looking for a return. Imagine the demand if it was called 'White Rosaheteromorpher'
The rose is secondry and the information on the back of the label is so brief and only serves to confuse. This lack of information suggests it will grow well anywhere from the Equator to each of the Poles. Most information is identical for nearly all roses and inadaquate for all..

The demand for an excellent plant and good chain of supply to the gardener should guarantee a return for the breeder. I do not see adequate computer registers in most nurseries I have visited so asume it's a lucky guess when royalties are calculated.

I firmly believe the breeder should be able to prevent anyone from using their genetical material (DNA) under a new name unless permission is given.
Ability to propagate the cultivator under another name is really a loophole in the patenting PBR process. We are governed by the law though there are a lot of people trying to make profit from others through interpretation.
Both my Lawyer daughters are fully employed in their offices and defending cases in the courts so everyone is trying to make a dollar.

Personally I would not propagate these plants for sale as I have a sense of fair play for all. Hopefully I can still pay the bills despite my attitude.

Jeff, don't let this stop you from enlightening us who knows I might get very hungry with my current attitude.

Sorry Simon I started the above prior to seeing your last post but having spent so much time on it thought I should hit SEND.

hi Guys,
I need some help...its a long story but does anyone out there have a copy of the book "The Rose...The Latest,The Greatest" by Neville Passmore and Trevor Cochrane?
I need any references word for word for Pierre de Ronsard in this book
..... Help would be greatly appreciated