Rugosa Breeders.

Simon, what Rugosa have you used, seed or pollen ? do all seedlings have the Rugosa leaves in the F1?

G'day Bruce,

I have used 'Scabrosa' a lot lately for a number of reasons. The first being that it is such a bomb-proof rose. The second is that I love the natural forum it has. It forms lovely mounds for hedges with little or no intervention. Then I also use it because it is thought to be straight rugosa... just a variety found growing naturally... a natural hybrid maybe... they don't know. I think this is important because a lot of the best breeding these days is being achieved by going back to species but the problem is that a lot of the species require a lot of 'taming' before they are suitable garden plants. If 'Scabrosa' is straight rugosa then it will need little taming because it is already such a good garden plant. 'Scabrosa' also seems to set seeds willingly BUT, and this was the clincher for me, my reading has uncovered that a lot of species roses, Rosa rugosa included, show a high degree of self-incompatibility. That means they prefer to outcross than self-pollinate and their anthers and stigma mature at different times to help ensure this. The further away from the species we get the less fussy they become about their pollen and the higher the chances of self-pollination. If there were more than one rugosa plant growing next to each other that weren't genetic clones you could expect lots of hips but if they were the only rose in the garden you could expect few hips. That means that most of the seeds formed from OP 'Scabrosa' plants will be from cross-pollination. I've planted mine in the middle of a lot of other roses so the chances of variability is very high and every single OP hip may produce something interesting, from Rugosa x HT to rugosa x miniature! I've used it in planned crosses with miniatures because I'd love to breed miniature rugosa plants and it seems to be a willing seed parent. Haven't even thought of using it as a pollen parent though I suspect it would be just as effective. It is diploid as well.

I've also used Frau Dagmar as a seed parent, schneezwerg as a seed parent and an unidentified one as a seed parent. The Frau Dagmar seeds germinated very well (and then I fried them ) and showed good rugose texture in the leaves. These were, however, pollinated with other rugose varieties. Rugose texture is variable but most will show lots-to-some texture in varying degrees in the F1 and it doesn't show up straight away in newly germinated seedlings. Scheenzwerg didn't germinate at all. I sowed about 50 seeds from it and got zip. The unidentified one I got two seedlings only from about 50 seeds and they are doing ok and show a fair degree of rugose texture which is improving as they age.

Don't be surprised if they take a while to flower. They can take up to 4 years to flower from what I've been told so far.

Simon, thanks for your response, appreciate your time and experience with Rugosa. Rose breeding takes time which is somethimg I may not have a lot of, my mother was 97 when we lost her so hope I have all her genes. I will try breeding healthy, heat loving roses. Yesterday was 40 c and 35 c at 7pm, today will be similar. February and March rains seem to be an annual event producing fungus and blackspot problems. All the HT's look like leafless sticks at this time so this will influence my final breeding choice.

My seedlings are growing well, they are in 5" pots, kept in a brick concrete floored garage near a open gauze window out of direct sun. Each morning at first sunrise I place them in the open and am increasing the exposure time each day to harden them off. They are up to 1 hour and 10 minutes exposure and are putting on a lot of new healthy growth. Pretty labour intense carrying 6 at a time but it seems to be working.

Some years ago I was interested in minatures, none remain except Delicious, if you don't have or know about it would suggest you look it up.
It suits our climate well, a real flower machine. Clear pink blooms and extremely hardy, can't remember if it sets hips. Only problem is budding it as suitable buds are very hard to find.

Ahhh.. you're in Glenorie... it's been a long time I was there... I grew up in Mona Vale and my better half is a Dural girl... when we met we shared a flat in Heathcote (on the eastern side) and I remeber I thought I was being the most romantic boyfriend possible by taking her out to Swanes and buying two miniatures; 'Black Jade' (non-grafted), and 'Sussex' and taking it back to Heathcote around this time of year proceeding to watch them go bare because of the rain, heat and humidity... I still grow 'Black Jade' (grafted this time) and down here it is a much better proposition.

Now... Delicious is a mini I have been keeping an eye out for because it's seed parent is 'Avandel', a rose that features in the ancestry of LOTS of roses. It's pretty big for a mini though isn't it? It's pollen parent is from a seedling x Friesia. Miniatures seem to be very hard to find these days... I use to have a great collection of them and gave them all away when I went to live overseas for a few years and now none remain One that I would love to grow again is a mini moss called 'Dresden Doll'. From memory I think Ross Roses still offers it. It's a perfect miniature replica of a moss rose. I'll be looking out for 'Lemon Delight' too because it is also a mini moss. Minis (and really small polyantha) I have collected so far include 'Green Ice', *'Bluesette', *'Lavender Jewel', *'Galaxy', *'Gold Coin', 'Black Jade', 'Sundust', 'Rise n Shine', 'Snow Carpet', 'Magic Carrousel', *'Oz Gold', 'Baby Fauraux', 'The Fairy', 'Red Cascade (a climbing mini that is great as a ground cover too... that's how I grow my two), and two unknown * Poulsen's minis that I am trying to ID (not going to be difficult as they are all listed here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I feel there is a lot of work to be done to improve miniatures that are suited to growing in Australia and I think the species like rugosa will play a big part for cooler areas like down here and gigantea will play a big part for warmer areas like up there. Looking forward to my breeding plants getting bigger so I can start on this idea.

* these are the ones I probably won't keep through to next year or may get potted up and grown in contained instead. I've found so far the ones with a strong wichuraina influence do beter down here.

Simon, just completed a post to you but it timed out and have lost it.
I am too busy to go through it again but Delicious just fits in as a minature.
Great for pots and seems to grow extra well here. Blooms are clear pink with high centers, its a stand out minature for Sydney weather.