Still having the odd iron problem

by paulh 15th January 2014, 00:30

As I've mentioned many times before a couple of my plants seem to have iron deficiency issues, I've tried all the suggestion made here, but it still continues. Now, I have 1 question, could it be a problem in the structure of the rose. There are 3 roses that have these problems, the one pictured is of Pope John, which get nice big buds, however the take ages to open up and then they don't fully open.
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by The Lazy Rosarian 15th January 2014, 06:30

Paul when you say the structure of the rose, how do you mean ?. I also am thinking "maybe" not iron with this one

by Ausrose 15th January 2014, 10:47

David I am thinking along the same lines as you.

by paulh 15th January 2014, 13:59

Thanks roseman, what I was thinking that maybe at grafting something has happened that has caused a problem. Clutching at straws I know. I have tried most things from iron chelate, Epson salts, trace elements. Pope john I think is the only plant that isn't on fortuniana. However the other 2 are from a small hobby rose farm and are supposed to be on fortuniana, but I must say that these 2 have been in the ground for over 12 months and are very stringy, blooms are under sized and have never seemed to want to get going.

by paulh 16th January 2014, 15:55

Any ideas Dave, I'm still miffed

by The Lazy Rosarian 21st January 2014, 06:00

Paul, our computer died, that is why I have not answered, I am still catching up, give me a couple of days.

by Ausrose 21st January 2014, 08:06

From my experience every now and then you will have a rose that under performs for no apparent reason. I have had situations where I have had two roses of the same cultivar, in the same bed side by side, purchased from the same source at the same time and treated exactly the same in all other ways yet one performs extremely poorly. One theory is the original bud was of a sub standard. I have a situation at the moment whereby five City of Newcastle in an identical environment are under performing and this makes me believe the environment is the problem not the roses. I have a sneaking suspecion the problem relates to the potting mix I used in the pots in which the roses are growing as it was primarily soil and compaction maybe the problem.

by betsyw 21st January 2014, 10:41

Ausrose, it's my understanding that garden soil should never be used as the main medium in pots. Compaction, poor aeration and other related ills are the result. I'd repot those roses asap in a quality potting mix, especially if these are going to be show babies in the autumn.

by Ausrose 21st January 2014, 16:47

These days I don't use any soil in my potting mix. I am planning to change the potting mix in the pots with the City of Newcastle however because of the size of the pots and the amount of soil in them I will have to bare root the roses so I'm leaving the change over until winter. Hopefully I will have City of Newcastle for the spring shows.

by paulh 21st January 2014, 23:23

roseman wrote:Paul, our computer died, that is why I have not answered, I am still catching up, give me a couple of days.

Thanks for that roseman

by paulh 21st January 2014, 23:27

Ausrose wrote:

From my experience every now and then you will have a rose that under performs for no apparent reason. I have had situations where I have had two roses of the same cultivar, in the same bed side by side, purchased from the same source at the same time and treated exactly the same in all other ways yet one performs extremely poorly. One theory is the original bud was of a sub standard. I have a situation at the moment whereby five City of Newcastle in an identical environment are under performing and this makes me believe the environment is the problem not the roses. I have a sneaking suspecion the problem relates to the potting mix I used in the pots in which the roses are growing as it was primarily soil and compaction maybe the problem.

Yep Ausrose, you might be onto something, the roses that I'm having trouble with are all from the same place. It was a small boutique rose nursery who only graft onto fortuniana, as you say all get treated the same and they fail to thrive. Still having the odd iron problem 2810361436

Still having the odd iron problem 2810361436

by hariet~rose 22nd January 2014, 07:02

did you get these roses as bare rooted or did you buy them in pots?

by paulh 22nd January 2014, 14:36

Thanks Hariet, they were potted roses.

by hariet~rose 22nd January 2014, 19:16

well, imo the problem may have come in the pot. A solution may be to pull the plants up (on a cool day) and completely wash the soil from the roots, every last skerrick. Also do a general inspection and trim away any wongy or diseased looking roots. Then soak the newly bare rooted plant in seasol for half a day in the shade. I would then excavate the soil around the hole, ditch it and replace with Searles seed raising mix and nestle the spa-treated plant back into the ground. If you can get hold of a packet of the mycorrhizal product that David Austin sells (maybe only in the UK - possibly not going to get through our customs for good reasons) or even a dose of liquid humus (i saw some at the shops, i will get the name of it) - then that may settle it back in. The colour of the leaves on your poor rose suggests to me that a co-factor is missing or the roots are being prevented from accessing the nutrients because they are coated with a repelling substance.. anyway my 10 cents worth..

by paulh 22nd January 2014, 23:43

hariet~rose wrote:well, imo the problem may have come in the pot. A solution may be to pull the plants up (on a cool day) and completely wash the soil from the roots, every last skerrick. Also do a general inspection and trim away any wongy or diseased looking roots. Then soak the newly bare rooted plant in seasol for half a day in the shade. I would then excavate the soil around the hole, ditch it and replace with Searles seed raising mix and nestle the spa-treated plant back into the ground. If you can get hold of a packet of the mycorrhizal product that David Austin sells (maybe only in the UK - possibly not going to get through our customs for good reasons) or even a dose of liquid humus (i saw some at the shops, i will get the name of it) - then that may settle it back in. The colour of the leaves on your poor rose suggests to me that a co-factor is missing or the roots are being prevented from accessing the nutrients because they are coated with a repelling substance.. anyway my 10 cents worth..

Thanks for that useful information hariet, what you are suggesting is certainly worth thinking about, haven't heard of mycrrhizal or liquid humas, I'll read up on them. if you can find out the name of the humus that would be appreciated. Still having the odd iron problem 2023066572

Still having the odd iron problem 2023066572

by paulh 23rd January 2014, 00:14

When grafting takes place, I wonder how often there would be problems that are due to the grafting technique. Is this an issue that nurseries are willing to put their hands up to, or is is just an opinion. I would love to know the answer.

by Ausrose 23rd January 2014, 09:17

Like any activities carried out by individuals budding will be done at different levels of competency however from my experience if the bud takes budding is completed successfully. There is a school of thought that the bud used can affect the qualityy of the rose and that the 3rd and 4th buds are the ones that give the best plants.

by The Lazy Rosarian 24th January 2014, 06:04

Paul, whilst you are poking around your computer, look up the trace elements in the fertilizer chain. Things like magnesium, zinc. IMO the leaves have a deficiency problem other than Iron. When you fertilize with different fertilizers, some react to others and in some cases, certain one's can be "locked" up. When you get the list of trace elements, "google" for images of it with roses and see what might be the return.
As for the roses being inferior plants from the one nursery, I would go back and have a look at the plants there to see if any of those look similar to yours and ask what the nursery staff think it is. As doug has mentioned above the "best" buds come fro the 3rd true leaf from the flower head and the "best of the best" come from a spent flower head stem.

by paulh 25th January 2014, 23:31

Thanks roseman, I did treat the said plants with epson salts but this had no effect. when you say look up the trace element in the fertilser chain, do you mean looking at the trace elements in the fertiliser I use??

by The Lazy Rosarian 26th January 2014, 07:24

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
/www.google.com.au/search?q=images+of+deficiencies+in+roses&oq=images+of+deficiencies+in+roses&aqs=chrome..69i57.37533j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Paul the above links will keep you occupied for a while. As the plants all came from the one nursery I would be going back as mentioned previously and check thier plants and ask question of the staff. As I also mentioned earlier I am not sure it is Iron, IMO I think it is one of the lesser elements, maybe magnesium/boron, I am still looking at images to narrow it down.

by paulh 26th January 2014, 23:00

roseman wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
/www.google.com.au/search?q=images+of+deficiencies+in+roses&oq=images+of+deficiencies+in+roses&aqs=chrome..69i57.37533j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

Paul the above links will keep you occupied for a while. As the plants all came from the one nursery I would be going back as mentioned previously and check thier plants and ask question of the staff. As I also mentioned earlier I am not sure it is Iron, IMO I think it is one of the lesser elements, maybe magnesium/boron, I am still looking at images to narrow it down.

Ta for the help roseman

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