When is the best time to bud onto rose stocks?

Hello rosarians, as a new comer i suspect this next question may well be in the vaults of previously asked questions.. but here is my question.. when is the best time to commence budding on plants in the garden? Or what are the signals on the host plant that one should look for? I have a couple of sorry looking Dr Hueys.. legacies of badly performing roses that died and just plain naughty roses i should never have bothered with (Woburn Abby) but have left behind a vigorous Dr Huey, so i was thinking of just grafting a rose bud onto the flourishing Dr Huey stock ... rather than digging the plant up and doing the budding in my greenhouse and then transplanting it somewhere.. i was also figuring that i wouldn't have that problem with old rose soil if i left the plant in-situ ...any advice greatly appreciated.. perfect day in the garden here today.. Hariet~rose

hariet-rose, I don't seem to have one of those squigley looking things on my keyboard.
Dr. Huey is a great rose, hardy,healthy and has a nice bloom, I love it.

Budding roses can be done 365 days a year if buds are available. Success is usually down on November budding which is the time most budders work in commercial nurseries. Any budding system that requires the bark or rind to be lifted from the centre wood is best done when the understock is growing. Patch or chip budding can be done anytime buds arrive such as buds from Queensland onto understocks in Armidale. I would bud onto your Dr. Huey where it is and when you have a lot of hard new growth I would move it.
Hope this helps to answer most of your questions.

Ozeboy wrote:hariet-rose, I don't seem to have one of those squigley looking things on my keyboard.

@ Bruce....look for it under your esc key next to the No 1 key...

thank you very much Ozeboy, Actually i quite like Dr Huey as well - but I don't need more than 1-2 and i have perhaps 6 that i could bud onto. How do you think budding onto climbing Queen Elizabeth would go? I have three of that rose and one is more than enough,

Hariet, are the sick looking Dr H part of the rootstock from previous plants, this seems to be what you have said. If you are to bud/graft onto these you will continue to get suckers from the good Dr. IMO you will have to take cuttings of your Dr then callous it, strike it, bud it, in this order.
As for old rose soils, it appears it is a myth, no science about it. If you are worried remove half and replace with some new stuff. Can you visulise a rose nursery replacing their soils every season, no.
As for budding onto QE you will continually get QE shoots from the existing union. The only other way would try and bud below the union/graft.
If you want I can send clean 'multiflora' rootstock cuttings(uncalloused), and/or seedling material.
As for budding times the sap really needs to be flowing to lift the cambium layer and some buds, for me it would be your late spring, better in your summer period.

hariet~rose, thanks for the keyboard lession I have found it. Roseman's
offer of Multiflora is a nice generous offer. Just be careful when aquiring understocks that they are virus free. Multiflora doesn't show signs of RMV even when infected but shows up on the rose grafted on it.

Thank’s David, for clearing up that old rose soil myth for me. I’ve often wondered how and why new roses would not grow in old rose soil, but so many people refer to it, that I’ve been so careful not to re-use any all the same; feels good to be free of that one.

Hariet, grafting poorly performing roses that you want to keep onto healthy stock from roses you don’t care for sounds like a reasonable proposition to me. I should like to give it a go, just to see how it works or if I can do it.
Would grafting give better results than propagating form cuttings? Which technique would be faster, easier, more rewarding, etc., in the home garden?
I have never grafted anything, and haven’t tried only for the lack of testing material, but you’ve just told me where to find some. This should be fun (so long as I bud below the union). Cheers!

What a great rose forum this is! Ok.. let me tackle these queries..
1. Roseman.. the sick part was the budded rose, the Dr hueys don't look sick, dangerously healthy in fact, the rose that died has been cut back and there is just a bit of their old wood left ... here is a photo of a typical sorry situation.. the reason the grafted rose died was because of frost.. but i can see what you are saying, if i graft onto these suckers more suckers will just appear thereby compromising my budding efforts. So from my photo, what do you think of this typical scenario..should i give the budding a go especially if i can get to near the old union? (which from photo #2 seems to be quite deep)#2 thank you for your offer of cuttings. i have plenty of Dr huey's (true confession time here) and also a couple of multifloras so i will strike from them...thanks ozeboy, that is sage advise as well about avoiding getting my cuttings from RMV vectors.. Jac2 let me know how you get on with your grafting..take photos! i will start in about december from the advise above. [img][/img][url][/url][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hariet, from left to right 2nd photo, bottom to top,
1. white type of callous, I assume(hope)
2. bud eyes, maybe 2 or 3 this can be seen from where the leaf axis has left greyish lines.
3. buds that have shot and now are trying to produce new shoots/ leaf stems.
Next dead rootstock/bud union, of the 3 dead canes there appears o be a hint of green behind the middle one, could be wrong.
Right handside at ground level 2 possible broken suckers/shoots.

How am I going at present. From my eye of the second photo I think the good Dr will continue to sucker, which it is notorious for.
If you go forth and bud are you going to lift the plant or leave it in situ Hariet. I honestly think it will continue to sucker. If you do bud you will gain experience for later down the track if you desire to do more.
Regards David.

what a good eye you have there roseman. the white mark was a bit of damage inflicted by me as i moved the mulch out of the way for the photo, so i scuffed the bark. Then next up the line are the bud eyes and then the buds that you have noted. the green on the 2nd cane of the old graft is an artifact unfortunately. I was thinking of leaving the plant in-situ. it will be awkward to bud in-situ and i am glad that there won't be anyone to take photos of the surgeon or the surgery because my body will take on strange shapes as i avoid the other roses nearby .. but good practice like you say. i have only had success once before and then the new shoot plus its flower fell off as i loved the accomplishment to death, literally. Now, how many buds should i attempt on this one uprising Dr Huey stem would you recommend? thank you very much. Hariet~Rose

So you are going to have go, I would first remove all existing bud eyes from the cane in the second shot, how long is this sucker. I am thinking this job will be done in your Spring/ Summer. If we leave say 2 bud eyes at about 150mm/6 inches from the bottom and remove all others, gentley/ cleanly with I reckon a disposable scalpel or simmilar, only remove the amount required to take the bud away. I would also dig the point of the scalpel into the centre of where the bud eye once was to hopefuuly kill any more return from that site.
As for how many eyes, if you are able to I would try 2 on oppossing sides, does this make sense so far.

thank you very much.. i will put this plan into action and it all makes sense! I will give it a go in december which is still spring here .. cheers, Hariet~rose