which red rose is best?

I have trying to find a red rose that will do well in Qld. I was thinking of black magic but I have been told that it will not do well here. So after I finished sulking I started to look at forums, but the reds they recommend are in different zones in different countrys. I prefer a dark red that lasts in a vase and holds it's colour reasonably well. And maybe perfume? Not to much to ask? Is there such a rose? I have heard Samantha or kentucky derby is good but I would like to hear some opinions before I make up my mind. Any thoughts?

Try 'Roundelay' from Trewallyn (see link in the links section for mailorder roses). It's meant to be a good doer in Australia. 'Don Juan' might be a good climbing red for you to look at. 'Mr Lincoln' likes the heat and makes a great cut flower.

'Mr Lincoln' might go purpleish in the Qld heat, Think about 'Papa Meiland' or 'Camp David' for smell and good colour.

Hi,
I like Oklahoma and Camp David.
Barbara B

Hello Happy roses, finding a dark red rose that will perform well for you depends where you are situated in Queensland. If on the coast the choice is very limited but if inland, places like Warwick you have a much wider choice. There are a lot of nice red to scarlet HT's worth looking at, Fire Fighter (Patented) medium red HT is a stand out rose superior in all regards to the others mentioned. The exception is it's growth which is slower to start with but once established it's remarkable.
One water shoot produced 16 blooms over 4" that filled 2 vases. This rose has the lot, fragrance, vase life and form. The only thing wrong with it, I can't propagate it for sale here due to it's patent.

Don Juan is a really great climber that is easily kept in check from taking over the whole garden. Looks good when looked down on from a balcony as the blooms look upward.

Simon suggested Roundelay which I purchased from Qld this Spring only to find growth has been very disappointing so far. Might be just one of those bushes that doesn't make it. It has a really good reputation so I have budded it myself from a different clone.

My climate is similar to Qld based on temperature and humidity but lasts for a shorter time.

Oh boy, thanks for the ideas, choices are going to be hard. I'm not really looking for a climber as my garden is small and I have to be picky.

I should have mentioned I do have a couple of reds, firefighter been one of them. Mine is only young and hasn't got started yet but I am looking forward to seeing those masses of blooms. I did read somewhere that a lady had grown 2600 roses and firefighter was her best yet.

I was thinking of getting something else as well, as I was not sure how firefighter would perform, I did buy it on impulse at the time, Roundelay sounds good, I wonder if anyone had experience with kentucky derby or Samantha ( is there 2 versions of Samantha?)

Maybe I should just get another firefighter and invest in some vases

I do also like papa meiland for the balck velvety overtones, verrry nice

I should mention too the reason I didn't get Mr Lincoln was that the ones I did see seem to be 'pink' in the heat. Does Beloved stand up well?

Mel, KD is a smaller plant IMO, so if that is what you are looking at it could do you well.
As for 'Samantha' it has been said there are 2 forms of it. I can only speak of the 2000 plants we had in igloo's for cut flowers. Lovely formed flowers, no Pong. At one stage we had a sport of it in pink, wasn't viable enough to persue it.
One that might slip under the radar is 'First Red', some members will remember from a past forum, it was a favourite for the moderator of it, it is a cut flower ,but does grow outside.

Happy roses, all the roses I suggest on the forum are roses I have grown for at least 5 years under humid condittions. Unfortunatly some rose people look on HMF and become experts in a day. Have had so many disappointments selecting the latest from catalogues and roses considered healthy by others in more temperate climates. There are a lot of red HT roses that I have aquired in the last 2 years but that is not enough time to evaluate them.

Papa Meilland has a beautiful bloom, fragrance and form but is not vigorous enough for my liking and not the bloom machine Firefighter is.

A rose that impressed me at some of the rose exhihitions was 'Good Samaritan' which may be too light for you. I call it a light red but the catalogues describe it as fuchsia-pink wine colour. Not the fragrance of FF but vigorous and the vase life is better that Mt Lincoln, really nice form.
I have not grown this HT here so can't speak for it's health in Sydney.

There is some other warm climate options too...

There is a newish Tea rose that was bred by George Thomson called 'St Francis Xavier'. It has intense dark red, fragrant, very double flowers and given its Tea pedigree (it's "Francis Dubreeuil" x 'Papa Gontier' though there was some discussion it might have been 'General Gallieni' instead) might do well where you are. I've had 'St. Francis Xavier' for two full years and it is just now getting going and is beginning to build in its third year. I'm not sure of the virus status of this plant as it looked like it had it when first planted but hasn't shown any symptoms since which is strange in our mild climate. Teas seem to take a very long time to establish down here in Tas so the slow growth is not unusual for down here and you might experience much faster growth. It has the most beautiful flowers with a wonderful perfume more reminiscent of HT's than Teas.

I hesitate to recommend "Francis Dubreuil'" because I haven't had much luck with it. Maybe you could find a good clone of it somewhere that is more vigorous than the one I have that has managed only a few shoots over the last two years and has remained under 30cm tall. Note that the "Francis Dubreuil" grown here in Australia, and elsewhere in the world, is not the original plant and is most likely a hybrid tea like 'Barcelona', according to the Tea book. In the two years I've had mine it has produced only two flowers... as Bruce said... maybe it's just one of those plants that don't thrive. I'll re-graft mine today, come to think about it, to see if that makes a difference. Ross Roses told me they thought there was not a virus free clone of 'Francis Dubreuil' in the country, however, so this might be affecting things too. I have not seen virus in mine but then again it hasn't had many leaves to show it.

Our Francis Dubreeuil is also very crappy. It is currently back in a pot as it seems happier there. We have had it for many years and it has never really grown more than 300mm high. Does have a few flowers over the year but nothing too flash.

Mel, apart from 2 roses we have been suggesting HT's, is that the form of rose you want to go in the scheme of your garden, now, if HT's are , I will throw another one in called 'Tatjana', has "good" pong IMO

Thanks for the help, I'll to go to the nursery and have a look ats whats available regarding all the suggestions. Yes I do prefer Ht's and pong is a bonus,I really like dark velvety overtones, it's a shame that papa meiland is
not as vigorous as I would like. but St Francis Xavier sounds interesting and Tatjana

Ozeboy has me thinking about firefighter and all those vases full of roses, sounds wonderful. Funny thing is when I started looking at roses the lady at the nursery suggested firefighter as she was getting a whole lot of 2 year olds in but I didn't know what I wanted then (still don't) and naturally before you can say "shoulda grabbed one of those while I had the chance" they all dissappeared and that was when I grabbed the younger one. Oh well I will have to wait til June before she gets more in *sigh* It gives me plenty of time to make up my mind at least..

I have heard good reviews about Good Samaritan, to me it looks more fushia and I would have bought it, but I got In Appreciation instead ( before I noticed GS ) which is like a dark pink and blooms quite a lot.

Hello Happy

I have a 91 yyear old client who has a Papa Meilland , I am 6'3" and it is way above my head, I would say it is vigorous

Hey Ozroz, that Papa Meillan wasn't growing in Sydney or Queensland.

I have seen Peace and PM growing like that south of Bathurst.

Just wondering that no one mentioned City of Newcastle...suppose to be the bees knees of roses? Bit bright red for me though

I never actually seen it for sale. Your HMF profile says you already have it too (I had to look up C of N because I'd never actually seen it and you were there in the gardens section ).

Yes I put my two cents worth in to HMF.
what happened was I went out and bought some roses (I have 16 all up) because they looked pretty, and it occured to me I should find out if they are actually any good (knowing zip about them)

The lady I bought some off suggested a few that were good, as in firefighter. C of N was the first she suggested, so I bought it, and now to me it looks a more brighter red then what I'm after, so I thought the only way I can find honestly whats good is to ask people that aren't trying to sell roses. Don't get me wrong she is helpful and very nice but in the end she wants to make a sale which is naturally to be expected.

She's the only one I know of that sells C of N, there are 2 other rose nurserys that are both an hour's drive from me and one is hard to get hold (Idon't know why) and the other has the "just buy the rose and go away" attitude. I asked her about black magic suppose to be a greenhouse rose and she answered in a very round about way that left me confused. It has been very nice though to see other peoples opinions on what is good and what isn't
Buy the way I asked her about Roundelay and she said she can't get it, though she's been trying

Hi Happy Roses, I have grown City of Newcastle for about 5 years and found it to be healthy for a HT. It's blooms are almost perfect shape and would make a great exhibition rose. It does reach up more than other red HT's. I love the colour though it is not dark enough for your current needs.
Since you are looking for a darker bloom then I am sure you couldn't go wrong with Oklahoma.

I am just going to "thread jack" for a second.
Bruce as you were saying you don't have a camera, I have just noticed that Aldi have a good basic digital for $59.00 , could be the start of some of your blooms. Have you got an Aldi close or not, A thought only. David.

Excellent red rose is Tess d'Ubervilles. Not many people are growing that rose, or even know about it, but I can say only very best about it. Two years ago I have donated one Tess d'Ubervilles and one Golden Celebration to my neighbour, and planted them together, in the same hole.

Now two years later, people stop their cars to stare at that remarkable sight — gorgeous yellow and deep red flowers intermingling, fanning from left to right, in a 2m diameter dome. You simply can't do that with any HT.

Tess alway has blooms, and is something to behold. Put it next to wall and it becomes a climber. It's incredibly healthy, ways better than any olde HT like Oklahoma, Papa Meilland or Mr Lincoln.

Out of those oldies, try to find Chrysler Imperial; it's smaller than a big Oklahoma, but repeats faster, has a very fine Damask fragrance and looks overall a better bush — more compact, and less 'airy'.

I have a floribunda called Courage, not sure how well it will do but the flowers I have got off it are like a dark rich red. I think that is the best I can describe the colour I like, I would love to find a ht version so to speak, for larger blooms. I originally like the colour of Oklahoma but I find it kinda goes too dark...How fussy am I

'Courage' looks a bit like the HT 'Kardinal'.

Happy Roses I would say "Very fussy".

Ozeboy you are absolutely right. Every other colour I have bought, not a problem. I don't why I'm trying to find the perfect red, I guess if I had a bigger space I would just buy a lot of different ones, but I think I will get firefighter and just be done with it. thanks for all the help, much appreciated