Golden Celebration?

Is there anything to celebrate about the David Austin rose, Golden Celebration? I have tried growing it in the Blue Mountains, then moved it to Sydney, with abysmal results in both places. During pruning, I discovered without surprise that it has gone to The Great Compost Heap. While I was pondering replacing it, it occurred to me that, while Forum members have enthused about many Austins, I don't remember anyone singing the praises of Golden Celebration. And yet David Austin seems to think it one of his very best. Was my plant just a runt? Or does this rose not perform very well in Oz?

I'm afraid GC suffered the same fate in my garden as yours did Meryl. Originally a cast off from one of Larry's 'I hate roses moments' - it just didn't thrive in my other garden either. Mind you, yellow isn't my favorite colour in roses, so I didn't exactly lavish any TLC on it. Having said that, Larry's other yellow cast off - Molineux grew in leaps and bounds and if I were to grow another yellow Austin, Molineux would be my choice. The Pilgrim also grew very well for me. Graham Thomas didn't like me either and both plants struggled.

I think I am losing my mind. I was trying to ask about Jubilee Celebration and wrote Golden Celebration instead. My only excuse is that I am packing to go away and my mind is only half on what I am writing.

That said, your comments, Rita, are as usual really useful for seekers after DA knowledge. Molineux, in my garden too, is one of the healthiest and most floriferous DAs. My Graham Thomas, like Jubilee Celebration, has done a lot of moving and is giving a half-hearted performance. Golden Celebration is middling. I don't have The Pilgrim yet but Teasing Georgia is a steady performer.

Now, back to the question I was trying to ask. Pretty please, Rita, you grow more DAs than anyone else I know...have you experience with Jubilee Celebration? Comments too, if possible, from others who have grown it.

Hi Meryl,
tomorrow I will look how big my Jubilee celebration is.

My bush of J.C is only a couple of years old but I love it. The flowers are huge and ruffled and deliciously scented.
Although the bush itself is not very big yet [this is not unusual , I find the locally produced roses budded onto Fortuniana rootstock can take a couple of years to establish themselves on our heavier soil up here in the hills] last year it had a lot of flowers , repeated well and like I said , they get huge.
I have been looking through my photo files trying to find some of the pics I took last year ..... I know they are there somewhere.....

Found a few.
Pic 1 & 2 are the same flower , with and without the flash but the colours are true strange as it may seem. On a bright day it is the bright colour and on a dull afternoon it is more mellow.
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Rosalie, the second, without the flash, is it what you would call it's "true" colour.
The third with the water spots is to 'die' for IMO

Meryl, we all have days/times where our minds go in the opposite direction to our will. I hope you got your packing completed and that you are enjoying your trip away. Re JC, my bush is as Rosalie describes so perfectly, and like hers, is also only a few years old, purchased in Oct 2008 and planted in July 2009. The colour on my blooms tend to lean more towards the salmon, rather than pure pink.

Here are a couple of my shots:
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I have also, this morning, taken some shots of the bush in its bare form to show you its structure:
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Here, JC is growing between Troilus to the left & Darcey Bussell to the right in the front garden bed. Behind is David's (C) glorious blue flowering Salvia which has flowered all throughout winter.
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Rira

Is it just the photos or are the roses planted very cloose together?

Mine died also, bloody Pommy roses.

Ozeboy wrote:Mine died also, bloody Pommy roses.

LOL.

Curiously enough , the only ones I have trouble with are the ones grown on the fortuniana stock.

Yes, they are planted rather close together - about 60cm apart in that section of the garden - its a small space. I find they cope quite well. There are 8 roses planted in this patch (in front of the Cherub birdbath).
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... and in their second spring, 2010 [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Bruce, not all your English Roses die! Your Gertie is now sprouting many tiny leaves much to my delight! Can't wait for spring! Thanks for adopting her out.

OzRose, tell me more about your experiences with Fortuniana in WA.
I am trying to propagate it at the moment and find it very dificult so would want a really good result. Might not be worth the trouble. I have it growing here but have never used it as an understock. All the Fortuniana benefits I hear and see written are in other parts of the world.
Compatability of understocks ( Roses) to the broad range of sion roses used is a very desireable trait. Rosa Multiflora has served me well for the past years. Dr. Huey suckers but that very thick stem is attractive at point of sale. Am just gathering information at present and attracting comments from people with Fortuniana experience.


Rita, I think you had better come out here and teach m how to grow those beautiful Pommy roses. My Gertrude didn't grow at all well but your Gertie looks like being a winner. Mmmm what is my defence, I am a propagator and not a gardener. You baby your roses and talk to them regularly.
Rita, your DA's are just fantastic, might be all that seaweed you use.
Congratulations well done.

I really appreciate the pictures, Ozrose and Rita. It's a lovely rose and I obviously haven't done it justice. The flowers strike me as rather like those The Endeavour produces (I have a good shrub of The E) so I am still wondering, given my limited space, whether to replace Jubilee Celebration. If you also have The Endeavour, could you perhaps also comment on whether you find the two roses fairly similar?

My Jubilee Celebration died too. Unusual when all my other DA's are doing well.

I can't see all the photos yet, but the ones I can see look fantastic.
I just looked at my Jubilee Celebration, its not real big yet and next to a bigger rose bush so I will make sure it doesn't get shaded too much when they get their leaves.
I can't help you with you latter request Meryl as I hardly took a photo last growing season. But I will this Spring/Summer comming. I want to take a photo of each rose in my collection if they are established and blooming.

Rita, are you looking? My Brother Cadfael is going the same way as Gertrude, down down down. You can have the lot of these Pommy Roses.
There is also Heritage and Grace to go with it. Might be worth a trip here before they all die.
They all suffer a lot of canes dying back.

Whooaah !! . There has to be something seriously wrong why this is happening .
I think we all really need to have a good sit down and talkfest to compare notes .... about why the D.A's do well in some parts of Oz and not others , and the influence of different understocks in enabling bushes to become established.

They grow feral here [as long as they are not on fortuniana] and I am at a loss.
THERE has to be an answer .....

There is but I'm not allowed to talk about it.. people tend to leave the forum when I mention it

Email me please Simon on your thoughts

my ears are flapping

My feelings are not so "precious" and I know that they can go bloody feral here so all views are welcome [to me]

I actually think there are a multitude of reasons and not all of them are the rose's fault. Here are a few thoughts (disclaimer... I am having a few wines tonight... first time in about 2 years and the thoughts may be a little garbled ;

1. Indiscrimate propagation: When propagation is done on a very large scale quality suffers. Fact. The quality of the final plant is due entirely to the quality of the bud you put on the understock or the quality of the cuttings from whence it came. Not all parts of the plant are created equally. Bruce was the first one to alert me to this when I was trying to find out why some Climbing Icebergs climb and some do not. The answer I got, which makes a lot of sense, is that buds from climbing canes will climb and those from non-climbing canes will not. Since then I have done a lot of reading and research and have found that climbing roses that are the climbing sports of non-climbing roses can revert on the same plant and if buds are taken from the non-climbing portions instead of the climbing portions then you will get a non-climbing rose. Despite PDR not being a climbing sport of a non-climbing rose I have a non-climbing plant of PDR that I made from a non-climbing cane of my PDR. So... how does this relate to DA roses? Well... it is reasonable to assume, therefore, that sporting can occur frequently in roses and the results can be as subtle as a slight difference in vigour or as obvious as a change in colour or stripes. If a bud is taken from a small, non-vigorous, twiggy portion of the plant then there is a good chance the resulting plant will be unlikely to thrive even when pushed along be a rampant understock like Dr phooey. Mass production means that as many buds as possible are required and so inferior buds are bound to be used along with the premium ones (tip: buy your roses from the smaller producers who, by the nature and scale of the operation, can focus more on using only quality buds). Cuttings are no different. Poor cuttings make poor plants in general.

2. Quality of the understock: Understocks aint understocks. Multiflora does wonderfully down here. Dr Phooey does not. Most things grafted onto Dr Phooey do poorly here and when rebudded onto multiflora they experience a drastic revival of sorts.

3. Rose Mosaic Virus: Nuff said.. virus = bad = widespread.

4. DA's selection process: In his early days, DA was quoted as saying his selction criteria placed looks above all else. Disease resistance was not his main priority. In his later days DA reprioritised his criteria placing disease resistsnce higher on his list and many of his newer ones, like 'Mrs Doreen Pike' are superior plants health-wise. The early DAs were based on crosses between OGR and modern roses all of European origin. The east of Australia is hardly typical of a European climate. The west coast of Australia has a drastically different climate to the east coast. Many of the native WA plants brought over to the east coast will fail because of the increased fungal pressures put on it. It stands to reason that if Kangaroo Paw can grow over there relatively unaffected by fungus (aka inkspot disease) then so can roses. Kangaroo Paw often do very poorly over here because of fungus issues and it is hard to grow some of the WA eucalypts here because of phytophera and other fungal issues. The extra humidity, added to the heat pressure, stacks the odds against cold-loving European roses. At this point people always come out in defence of the DAs growing well in their own gardens and many of them are doing so, supposedly, chemical free. I tips me hat to them because I have never been able to do it organically. Not a single DA grows cleanly down here, though sometimes they grow with enough vigour to make it bearable... but this brings me to my next point...

5. Husbandry: Some people have more time to pamper their roses than others. Some are more willing to go that extra mile to provide conditions that favour any rose. I'm not one of them. If I can't plant a rose in unimproved ground with a layer of mulch and then forget it then it is no good for me. Maybe (for sure), this is why DAs do not do well for me. I barely have time to scratch myself and with over a thousand roses (including my own seedlings) I don't have the time or the money to improve over an acre of rose garden. They need to be tough and be able to make it on their own in my rosey boot camp. Some do this very well, but others, DA roses included but not exclusively by any means, do not. Some DA roses give it a fair dinkum Aussie crack but others are just awful. Heritage, for instance is a trooper down here but Mary Rose and its sport Winchester Cathedral fail to thrive. I believe the people for whom DAs thrive are those that either have smaller gardens or who have the time/resources to invest in providing for their specialist needs.

6. Genetics... as mentioned above... Cold weather genes in a hot place = failure to thrive or serpentine growth. It is interesting to note that when used in breeding, some DAs can produce roses with vastly different potentials. Nahema is a wonderful rose whose Mum is Heritage. Nahema is superior in every way and well worth growing. My advice... use DA's in breeding with more east coast-friendly roses and then select ruthlessly to choose seedlings that look the part and can walk the walk too.

7. Not all places are created equally: Some DA roses grow well down here whilst others do not. This is the same for DA roses, just like any other rose... they may not grow well in other areas. People need to be more discerning and less pigheaded, trying to grow every rose in their climate and expecting them to do well... it's just not possible. If you find any rose that does well where you live you should go with it. DA's do not do well under my time-poor regime down here.

Just my opinions... I'm sure there are other reasons but these are all I can muster and now I must go get another glass of red

See... this is why I need to stay away from the red and keep my opinions to myself

That was very well said Simon. hic Couldna dun betta mes elf. oop.

They grow here and they grow feral , the only problem I have is the rootstock thingo.
Roses produced commercially here in W.A are budded on to Fortuniana rootstock.
This is touted as being the be all and end all of RS 's for W.A . So it possibly is down on the coastal sandplain , but it is really touchy up here and takes a long time to get established .

That applies to all locally produced roses tho , not just the D.A's.

The cheap as chips bagged ones that Bunnings and Big W flog in the cooler months , actually do very well here . Which they are not supposed to do if you read all the stuff put out by the different rose interests in Western Australia.

I can't speak for Dr Huey down on the coastal sandplain but I do know that mulitflora was umm , ho , humm
down in Gosnells.