Scabrosa Query.

I planted 'Scabrosa' in 2004. This time of the year it is 'frustration time' for me as it has never held it's hips.
They form nicely, turn yellow and drop.
I have been told it is a rose that takes a while to settle in - but 7 years?
Bees love it and it flowers profusely, so can anyone offer any suggestions as to why I don't get the lovely autumnal hips?
Floribunda (Lyn)

Hi Lyn,

My 'Scabrosa' sets a mile of hips every year, planted in 2007. Is your plant planted near other roses? The reason I ask is that 'Scabrosa' is relatively self-infertile. that means it requires cross pollen of a suitable type to form hips. Mine is in the middle of one of the larger beds and so bees visit many of the flowers all around it and so I end up with a good hip show every year. Mine are dark orange and as large as apricots by this time of the year. Roses that are around mine that also attract a large number of bees are 'Ann Endt', 'Mutabilis', and 'Temple Bells'. Other roses do attract the bees but these ones attrcat more that their fare share.

Thanks Simon.
My 'Scabrosa' is at the front of a bed dominated mainly by HT's and modern climbers on pillars. Could it not be getting pollen of a suitable type? Should I have another rugosa nearby? It is the only rugosa I have.

Another thought is...Is there another rose similar to 'Scabrosa' - I am thinking that mine may not be 'Scabrosa' at all, even though it was purchased from a reputable nursery, and sure looks like 'Scabrosa' to me.

Given your excellent photographic skills, I'm sure if you were to post a photo we'd be able to confirm it in a flash.

'Scabrosa' is thought to be a garden form of rugosa 'rubra' so any of the other rugosa reputed to have excellent hip formation would make ideal companions to improve hip set. I have pollinated mine with modern rose pollen and I get quite a low success rate. I've found it more relaible as a pollen parent. Having said that I can be confident that any hips it does form on its own are likely to be from cross pollinations so its worthwhile sowing any that do form. You never know what you might get. 'Ann Endt' is reputed to be a rugosa x foliolosa seedling and it is extremely self-fertile. It makes prodigious amounts of pollen and would make an ideal garden companion to 'Scabrosa'. Also in my garden is rugosa 'alba' and an open pollinated 'Frau Dagmar Hastrup' seedling. Modern rose pollen that I did get to stick to 'Scabrosa' was 'Peace' and a handful of miniatures. The seedlings were invariably weak and all were culled. Rugosa 'rubra' looks a lot like 'Scabrosa' as does the normal Rosa rugosa but they too have similar self-fertility issues. My rugosa 'alba' seems to have no such issues and every flower forms a hip.

Have you ever thought of growing roses from seed? I can send you 'Scabrosa' and rugosa 'Alba' seeds right now that are ripe and ready to put in the fridge to make your own rugosa plants if you would like to try. Rugosa seedlings grow quite quickly but being seedlings and on their own roots will likely sucker like crazy. Alternatively if you are any good at budding I can send you budwood of a few different fertile rugosa plants.

I should also add that rugoa seedlings can take up to three years to produce their first flowers.

Thanks Simon, this is all most interesting and I think we are on the right track in as much as my 'Scabrosa' is not setting hips because of lack of pollination. Although being with other roses they may not be helping in the setting of the hips. I have a few miniatures, and of course 'Peace', so will get out with the paint brush today. There is no shortage of bees, so the variety of the nearby roses may be the problem.
I am unfortunately running out of room for another rugosa, but could spade prune, altho parting with a rose is always traumatic for me!
I have tried growing roses from seed and even managed to get seedlings, but we travel a bit, and during one of our trips away most of the seedlings expired.
As we have a couple of trips planned this year - I thank you for your kind offer which I will decline now, but may well take you up on it in the future, if the offer is still there.
I have posted a photo of my frustrating rose.

I have an even better option for you! I have a few 2 year old OP 'Frau Dagmar Hastrup' seedlings from Woolmers Estate here in Tasmania. They could have been pollinated by any one of 5000ish roses and I haven't seen a flower on them yet. You are welcome to one of these if you'd like it. If you'd like it use the PM function here to contact me and we'll exchange our details privately. I'm happy to hang onto it until winter if that suits you better. I know that kind of thing suits me better being in a winter rainfall area. There is only one condition When it flowers please take photos and post them here and if they are nice send me a little bit back

Posted a reply but it hasn't come up! probably forgot to hit "send". Duh!
That is a great option Simon. Thank you. I will reimburse you for the P & H. and of course send you a photo & a piece of the plant if successful!
Have sent email with my details.
Thank you again, I may yet see hips on my Scabrosa!

PS - Brain is obviously fuzzy today!
Holding it until summer is over would probably be a good idea. I don't think our SA summer has arrived yet, but it will!

I got the email Lyn and will hang onto it until the weather cools down a bit. Don't worry about the postage Lyn I'm sure it will all end up even in the end

Thanks Simon - I have picked out a spot for it already!
My husband says "No more roses" but after 43 years of marriage - who listens to husbands!

Hi Lyn, Is this your profile on HMF: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

If so, where did you get your 'Orangeade' from? I'd love to try this rose. How does it grow here in Australia? I've only ever heard others in the U.S. talk of this rose andit has been used extensively as a parent and has produced some excellent results crossed with Rosa fedschenkoana.

Hi Simon,
Yes - that is me - and I feel guilty as I haven't been into my page for ages and should update the photos, most of which were taken in my "happy snappy" days before I got serious with my photography! LOL.
My records show I planted 'Orangeade' in 1988, and it is still going strong.
In those days I would have just picked it up - probably at our local nursery - not a rose specialist. It could also be a supermarket job - I wasn't so fussy in those days!
It is a robust bush, I can recommend it. Pretty disease free and forms strong hips. It has a beautiful open centre and glossy green leaves.
I have hips on it at the moment - it got missed when deadheading recently so I could (a) send you some or (b) try and strike a cutting if that would help.
I will follow it up with 'Thomas for Roses' who still have many of the older varieties, but it isn't in their recent catalogue.

That would be wonderful Lyn! I would love to try option B thankyou I can't see it on any current catalogues of nurseries that will send to Tasmania.

Not a problem Simon - I will do my best to get a cutting going.

It is better to send down cutting material to me Lyn so I can either bud it or strike it. Quarantine don't like plants going through the mail that have roots that might have soil attached... especially now as Myrtle Rust is high on their agenda and they are screening things much more carefully. A rooted cutting is likely to be confiscated and destroyed without a plant health certificate. I was reading only this week in the local ag. newspaper that conditions of entry were now more stringent so I had better stick to what I have most often done in the past.

Quarantine have advised me in the past that I am allowed to bring in cuttings so long as there is no roots, no soil, no leaves, no insects, or any other debris. It needs to be clearly marked on the front of the envelope that it contains rose propagating material so the inspectors at Launceston can check it. It then gets resealed and sent on to me where I can either strike it or bud it. Seeing as I have quite a number of understocks ready to use at the moment I would probably bud up a few. The best wood to use for this is a stem that has just finished flowering where the buds have not yet broken.

I have your address now, so I can send you a prepaid, self-addressed, A4 plastic sachet to make things easier for you

As I am a bit thick around the edges . what is the best days to post budwood to you Simon and how long would it take do we think from your place Lyn to Simon. I think Simon would do better with a lot of wood and then maybe out of it get 1 to strike IMO
Sorry Simon, I had missed your reply to Lyn.

My next question to you Simon was to be about Quarantine regulations. You have answered that for me.
I gather I would send the cuttings asap after taking them. Do I have to prepare the cut edges with anything?
It would probably be best to post them avoiding a weekend?
I have a very friendly postmaster at Hahndorf so can quiz him about the quickest way to get them to you.
All this providing that 'Orangeade' and I survive this weekend - it is 42 degrees here at the moment and we are sweltering!

David... I'm very successfuol at raising cuttings and budding.. what are you on about I have too many in fact.. I only want one or two of each and always end up with 5-10 of each.

To be honest, Lyn, I wouldn't worry about which day they get sent or other details like that. Budwood can last quite a long time in the mail... the really hot weather is best avoided so today would have been disasterous even here. It was 35 degrees here today so we spent the afternoon at the beach cooling down.

Here's what I do:

* Select a stem that has just flowered. These are ideal for budwood and ideal for the plastic bag method of striking cuttings. I don't worry about cutting the ends in any particular fashion when I'm sending them because I expect everyone to whom I send cuttings to re-cut the ends when they arrive anyway. I don't use rooting hormone. I sometimes use willow water.

* Wrap the bud sticks in newspaper and wet it thoroughly. Allow it to drain well and then seal it in a plastic bag. If fungal diseases are a problem at the time I will give the cuttings a mancozeb dip before I wrap them.

* Pop them in the mail the next day and send them by ordinary mail when a cool change comes through. It usually only takes a few days to get here... a week at the most. I can send a prepaid express post bag but this doesn't guarantee arrival over night to Tas from anywhere outside of Tas.

* When they arrive, if I'm budding I'll do it straight away. I spent this afternoon potting my understock cuttings into large pots and making sure they are nice and moist so the sap is flowing strongly for when they arrive. If I'm doing cuttings at this time of the year, because I get cuttings sent sans foliage I need to induce dormancy so I leave them wrapped up in the bags they are sent and put them into the fruit crisper in the fridge where they will stay for about 3 weeks. In that time they are likely to have calloused over and be ready to go. If I have foliage I use the bag-method because leaves produce important substances that promote rooting. Once they are dormant and starting to callous I'll bring them out at night and put them back in during the day for a week to duplicate spring warming up. After a week they should even be starting to sprout leaves and then I can pot them up, place a soft drink bottle over them and put them in light but not sunny place for the leaves to start doing their stuff. Then I'll start hardening them off. It's much easier during the winter because I just wrap them in moist newspaper, bag them, and leave them on a shelf where they callous and then once calloused I pot them and put them outside under a tree where they stay asleep but still form roots and they wake up when everything else wakes up.

So don't worry too much about things. The most important thing, IMO, is to make sure the secateurs are sharp. I don't even use secateurs when making cuttings. I use a very sharp knife. Many times cuttings arrive with the ends battered and crushed and infection sets in at these points and I might as well give up then and there.

Hope that helps

Simon, what part do you not understand, I was only giving Lyn the method that I knew you would end up with enough budwood in case of some hiccup.

I thought you were having a dig David...

OK Simon - That sounds simple enough!

'Orangeade' throws up quite strong stems with the flowering cluster on the top - probably thicker than I would use when (occasionally) I strike a cutting. but I will send a selection of sized stems.
Best to wait until the weather is cooler and there may even by some newer shoots by autumn ready for the autumn flush.

No Simon, the transfer of wood is important to you so, that was my suggestion.
A dog and a bone is me. Or is that a Monolith thing, like a big ellllyyyphanntt

Hi Simon
The Rugosa arrived today safe and sound - gave it a long drink and it is now planted right nextdoor to 'Scabrosa' - - fingers crossed! Thank you very much.
Is it 'Frau Dagmar Hastrup'?
I can probably recycle your packaging and get your cuttings away pronto.
Will follow your previous instructions - will I have to get a special declaration form from the PO for the Quarantine side of things?
Lyn.

Simon - I posted your 'Orangeade' cuttings last Tuesday - I am concerned as you haven't answered my last posting re 'Frau Dagmar Hastrup' and I am hoping you are at home to receive them.
The weekend may have held them up.