Tomato pulp experiment... some results

First one:

50 OP 'Westerland' seeds were placed into tomato pulp (home grown 'Beefeater' tomatos) for 2 weeks and then were stratified in moist peat in the fridge. 50 OP 'Westerland' seeds that were not fermented in tomato pulp for 2 weeks were stratified in moist peat in the same way as the first. When the first seed began to germinate, which happened to be in the non-treated sample, all seeds were sown in the same tray, divided down the middle. Today, there has been only 2 germinations in the non-treated seeds and there has been 22 germinations in the tomato-treated seeds. Treated seeds are still germinating whilst there has been no germinations in the non-treated side for some time.

Experiment two:

Buoyed by the results of this experiment I wondered what would happen if you left them in a little longer. Bruce sent me some OP seeds of 'Don Juan'. They look like big, hard, woody seeds and these are the ones that have most trouble germinating so I thought I'd try these seeds in tomato pulp as well. I soaked them in tomato pulp for three weeks and on removing them today they look like this:

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Just one extra week has resulted in pretty much all the pericarp being 'scarified' off. I'll put these in peat today and see how these go now too. They almost look like they've been in a tumbler they are that smooth and white.

So is it the "acid" component in the tomatoes that does the trick ?
I have made some inquiries amongst the tomato aficionados on OzGrow for recommendations for their most acid tomatoes .

I found some seeds that I left in the hips in a plastic container with the lid on came out looking like yours . The pulp of the hip fermented and went all mooshy and bubbly [was probably alchoholic by that stage ]

In the meantime I don't mind trying the tomato pulp idea .

cheers. Rosalie

I don't think it is the acidity of the tomato pulp. I think it is the anaerobic micro-organisms metabolising the outer coat of the seed.

Any tomato fan will tell you that to store tomato seeds properly you first need to ferment them. You do this by mixing the pulp + seeds with a little water, jar it and put a muslin cloth over the top and wait four days. The gelatinous coating around the seeds is what starts the fermentation. As fermentation takes place the outer coating of the seed is 'digested' and the seeds are able to germinate and their dormancy is broken. By putting the rose seeds in there these processes act on the coat of the seed to break it down and, I believe, leach out the remaining inhibitors at the same time allowing germination to begin more reliably. I would like to do the experiment on a much larger number of seeds to be able to determine whether there is actually any effect... looks like I'm going tohave to drag out my stats books to refresh the old memory on statistically significant numbers I'm thinking I'm going to collect every one of the OP 'Altissimo' seeds this season because I've never been able to get them to germinate and they are big and hard... if it works on them it will work on anything

Oh.. it also makes sense that seeds left in the hip would do the same thing... as nature had intended... if you think about it, seeds get to the ground in one of two ways... the first is if the hip ripens and falls to the ground. The flesh will then begin to decompose and probably ferment and the seeds will then be chemically scarified in preparation for spring germination. The other primary way will be after it passes through the digestive tract of an animal that eats the hip which also involves the chemical scarification of the seeds as the hip is digested. If a bovine of some description eats it then it will not only be digested but also fermented in the rumen. So... it all makes sense to me

Simon this is great news! My germination rates are very low, despite having tried everything. I think you mentioned it somewhere before, but could you give me your tomato pulp recipe, please. I'll send you something in return

No recipe to it Dave... I just mush up the pulp and add some water and the rose seeds and cover it with a cloth and leave it for a few weeks

Very interesting.

... any particular temp range? Thanks Simon.

Nope... I just put it outside on a window sill in the shade. It can smell

OK. Now I can't wait til next autumn to try it lol.
You should see the pollinating that's going on here - just like this - crazy

I'm yet to start... I've done two flowers only... 'Lorraine Lee' x laevigata and 'Scabrosa' x laevigata.. nothing else is out here yet... lots of buds and leaves getting bigger but it's going frustratingly slow

Dave if I can ask why leaving it till next Autumn, can it not be done as you get hips on your roses

Most of the hips don't mature til the end of summer-late autumn in this climate.

my dearly beloved has always thought I was a bit potty ; now he's convinced !
.... the festy tomato in the bag , that would always have me muttering and swearing given the price of them , slung with disdain into the chook bucket ; now pounced upon as a great prize and carried off in triumph .....

Just use the pulp Rosalie... not the flesh or skin

got a lot of big seeds from AD X Alfred Colomb

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as I know from last year this sort of seeds is very slowly germinating, has a very strong nutshell. So I decided to go with the tomatoe fermentation.......

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....hoping that it will speed up the process. Maybe a beer mash would work too

Keep the fingers crossed

cheers
Bernhard

Awesome Bernhard... will be good to get some extra data on this. The Don Juan seeds are still in the fridge... no germination yet.