David H Austin

He's old now, but his work and vision will still be here, even when our time is gone.
A photo from the 2010 Chelsea Flower Show.

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what a wonderful pic, what is the single pinkie behind him, that does take my fancy

Ozrosarian as you seem to know a lot about him and his roses, how is his health if I can ask.

roseman wrote:Ozrosarian as you seem to know a lot about him and his roses, how is his health if I can ask.

A recipe for a good, long, healthy life: live in the world of roses and horticulture. Create new life, new possibilities. So far he's doing well. His wife Pat died. He's very agile despite age. Last year I've managed to capture a photo of him inside his nursery; an old man in hat passed by and it seemed at moments, like he was everywhere at the same time.

I warmheartedly recommend his last book, 'The Rose', to all rosarians and general public too. It's a big, beautifully designed and printed, comprehensive book (costs $100 or thereabouts in Australia) with an interesting and unique perspective on all kinds of roses, including his English roses, their past, present and future. It seems to me like he was trying to finish this new book before too late and pay respect to all roses. If you read between the lines, it's like he's saying goodbye to the audience, but ensuring us that life itself -- the essence of it best represented in the beauty of roses -- will continue even after our time is gone.

For me, David Austin's story reminds me of the story of Michelangelo, when young Buonarroti was trying to carve out his (quite incidentally, isn't it?) 'David' out of the abandoned marble block. Several sculptors have tried before him, for decades, gave up finally saying that stone is of no use, has bad veins and nothing is inside worth carving out and admiring.

That piece of rock in Austin's case were the old fashioned, once-blooming roses, that the world and many rose breeders have forgotten, abandoned in the dust of time. Yet he had guts to do something with them, and through painstaking work many had doubts about and waived upon, to unveil something rather extraordinary.

I was possible, but one must not give up.

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Hi David he looks healthier in his pix than his roses do here in Sydney.

He is an inspitation to all rose breeders only to be eclipsed by his marketing, a real genius.

Wish I could grow roses as well for heat and humidity as well as he can for Europes cold snowy climate.

Ozeboy wrote:Hi David he looks healthier in his pix than his roses do here in Sydney.
Wish I could grow roses as well for heat and humidity as well as he can for Europes cold snowy climate.

I said once, if some of them can thrive in Perth, they can do almost anywhere (apart from QLD, which is good for bananas only .
It's a matter of choosing right cultivars and testing them, and of course, it's a learning curve for all of us. We need to share information so there are fewer flops and more happy people. From my experience, roses from his Leander group and Hybrid Musk group are best for this climate, because of their ancestry. But how many people know what exact cultivars they are?

Ozeboy wrote:He is an inspitation to all rose breeders only to be eclipsed by his marketing, a real genius.

I still think his best marketing are happy little people like us, who grow his roses in their own gardens and talk about them. Word of mouth is best marketing and there's no money one can buy it.

David Austin is, unfortunately, very sick and fighting cancer. He was recently honoured by the Great Rosarians of the World and was unable to attend due to ill health. Michael Marriott stood in on his behalf. Read more here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Simon wrote:David Austin is, unfortunately, very sick and fighting cancer. He was recently honoured by the Great Rosarians of the World and was unable to attend due to ill health. Michael Marriott stood in on his behalf. Read more here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Yes, he is ill. I wanted to say that despite old age and everything, he still fights well, writes and attends shows. Important part of every cancer fight is not to give up.

It's a terrible thing... We've lost a few Great Rosarians over the last few years... Mr Ralph Moore, Mr Frank Benardella, Prof Fineschi's... here's hoping Mr Austin can stay active and healthy for as long as possible.

that is so sad

"apart from QLD, which is good for bananas only"

I never could get my bananas to grow. Teas are a bit different story.

Balinbear wrote:"apart from QLD, which is good for bananas only"

I never could get my bananas to grow. Teas are a bit different story.

Simon your 4.18 post RHA summs it up very well. Health is the last criteria to be considered in their breeding program. I knew it but have never seen it in print up until now.
If you accept these roses as healthy enough for you then " Lucky You"
WA is very low humidity as shown by the number of special native trees growing there. The eucalyptus " Rose of the West" wouldn't last longer than two months here due to our Humidity. Another " Bushy Yate " just grows but looks like a DA rose for most of it's miserable life.

There is a commercial rose grower next to me who grows a white and pink DA due to popular demand. His invirontal control methods are state of the art.
He mentions that when he can grow them in the middle of his bitumin drive
I should be able to grow them in my garden.

So keen am I to get them to grow, I budded Septer'd Isle from a miserable plant from another nursery and kept it in total shade. Believe it or not it looks pretty healthy and look forward to watching it during summer.

I am so sorry to hear of DA's poor health, he is a master rose breeder but just doesn't breed roses suitable for Sydney and above.

Cancer is a major killer but science is on the brink of a major break through so hope he can hang on till it arrives.
Have a look on TED ( Google) then Bonnie Bassler discussing Bacteria and DNA. Very interesting

Ozeboy wrote:Simon your 4.18 post RHA summs it up very well. Health is the last criteria to be considered in their breeding program. I knew it but have never seen it in print up until now.
If you accept these roses as healthy enough for you then " Lucky You"

I'm not quite sure people understand what M. Marriott wants to say, and also what's David's actual view on rose breeding. I think they're misunderstood completely in this case.

When evaluating, say, 50,000 seedlings, they won't choose only those with best looks, but they'll choose those that have: best looks + best behaviour + best fragrance + best health altogether. Looks and fragrance are very relative and subjective terms, and when comparing in final selection (after thorough selection based on all criteria), say, 50 great looking seedlings that all smell nicely .. those with best health will prevail as their choices. (They like to choose parents that will pass much better health too.)

If you don't believe me, look at their cultivars released during the last 10-15 years: many have light to medium strength fragrance. But they're chosen because they have better health. Also take a look at their catalogues; they've taken out many older cultivars not because they had poor blooms and scent (in fact they all had powerful fragrances and beautiful blooms). People also think they substituted them just to promote new cultivars, to sell them more. But the real reason was that the health of old cultivars was't up to more recent standards. Or they were untidy plants with bad behaviour. DA didn't want to be judged by those inferior plants. If I had to choose between an olde Othello and newer Falstaff, I'd chose Falstaff anytime. Why? Well, it doesn't have as powerful scent as Othello, no, but it's a nicer, better behaving plant. And is perhaps healthier too. Much cleaner foliage to my eyes. Othello is a wild, misbehaving beast.

Although health alone is very important for rose breeders like yourself, that virtue alone doesn't sell. If that were true nurseries would sell tons of prickly rugosas and zero of HTs, floribundas, etc. which almost all suffer from BS. But people would ideally have it all -- great looks, great growing habit, some lovely fragrance, great health. You can always control rose's health with a little bit of spraying, but there's no spray that can transform it magically into a better looking and behaving plant, or give it more perfume.

I don't think this is the case in this instance. I'm not sure if you know who Kim Rupert is or not but he is is one of the most switched on rosarians in the world today... I'm pretty sure he doesn't have it the wrong way around, especially in the context of being with Michael Marriott himself at he time of the conversation. In the specific context of the conversation linked to above it can really only be taken one way. I too have read some of Mr Austin's books and in it he has said much the same as Mr Marriott has and has gone on to say that as time has gone by and expectations of roses have changed that better disease resistance has become more of a prioroty. Take 'Mrs. Doreen Pike' for example. One day I will get around to getting this amazing looking DA. It is a hybrid rugosa and is reputed to have excellent health and vigour. The excerpt from the conversation linked to above that is of most relevance is:

I also quoted Ralph's saying, "create a good plant first, it's always easy to hang a pretty flower on it later". Again, Michael [Marriott] listened. He stated at the Austin Nursery, their first priority is their preconceived "certain look". The rose has to conform to the "look" they want. Second, is fragrance; third is beautiful flower, with health somewhere down the list. He said, "of course, it has to have acceptable health", but their prime goals are "the look", fragrance, pretty face then health.

You have to keep the whole thing in context I think. At the time the first DA roses came out the world was just beginning to 'be over' HT roses. They were seen as something different (because of the 'look' and 'smell'), and people ate them up. That was some time ago now and people are becoming more environmentally aware and busy in their lives and in today's context DA the original DA roses don't measure up. Obviously there are newer better ones coming out, however, in an Australian context, there isn't much in the way of improvement due to our specific climatic pressures. I grow about 10 different DA roses under a no-spray regime. They don't perform terribly. Much like many other modern rose actually. But Tasmania is pretty different and most roses grow better here than anywhere else in the country... not a valid comparison really. In the heat and humidity, as found around Sydney, you would be lucky to find DA roses that grow as well as down here. Lots of people get defensive about this and pontificate about how they seem to be able to grow them without any trouble... why can't you (lol) but if we are being really honest with ourselves we would have to admit they are not exactly winners here. If Australia is anything like the U.S. (and we are in most things unfortunately), then many of the chemicals we spray around to control rose health will become unavailble... so you won't be able to just whip out the sprays to improve health. Then you will find that this feature will become the priority because without spraying we won't be able to transform them into good looking plants and no matter how good the flower or or perfume it will still look terrible. I'm sure that in years to come, if DA roses are to continue to be viable, then they too will reassess their priorities and make disease resistance and carefree maintenance their primary objective. If not they too will fade out from the stockists shevles and only be available at specialist diehard rose nurseries.

And then there's Iceberg, the world's most popular white (and black) rose!

I know some like David Austin roses and others don't, each to there own. IMO I do, yes I live away from humidity in a dry area of Mudgee. I grow roses that I like, not what they "grow" or look like. If you notice I rarely place pictures on here as the members would be horrified with the way they are treated and how "they" look, but that is me not anyone else.
As we are on the subject of DA roses and how they (Michael Marriott) say what is the criteria for them, lets send our correspondance to them from the plublics point of view, and get some answers, on this matter I would like imput not from one member but lots, maybe a poll or questionaire, thoughts please on this.

We perservere with "Heritage" and have kept a "Teasing Georgia" (because I am a sucker for yellow roses) though it looks like it is in the firing line for the revamp of that part of the garden.

I think there is still a Graham Thomas (again its yellow) and an Emanuel (in the dog yard) that don't get any attention but the rest are gone (or if they are still there they won't be for much longer).

BS and the fact that they all tend to grow quite long and lanky in our heat has shown that they really are a waste of time anywhere that you get humidity. We don't really spray of roses. I might if there is a swam of bugs but the frogs usually keep them in relative control.

We know we cannot match how roses are grown in cooler climates etc but the teas, chinas, hybrd musks and noisettes go well enough for us.