Some Trivia

Anybody wondered where their roses’ potash came from and why it sometimes has different names (e.g., Potassium -Chloride, -Sulfate, -Magnesium Sulfate, -Nitrate and still more)?

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And here I was thinking I’d be just fine with a constant supply of horse manure. James and I always had a good giggle watching Gardening A. I mean how could anybody get so excited about anything, if it wasn’t the bees knees:
“Manure! Manure!!! MANURE Yippee MANURE!!!”

Apparently farmyard manure is not all that high on N:P:K … hmm, according to the International Potash Institute.

A range of input sources is always good.
It's one reason I don't bother to cut my own hay and feed it out - I'm better off buying in hay which is from different areas with slightly different mineral profiles. Same with grains.
Manures will have different N:P:K profiles depending on species and location/feed regime. And yes, they are never "complete" fertilisers. In Europe they compost down the manures out of the over-wintering barns. This compost will also contain a lot of straw & wasted feed. It all helps...
Knowing what your soil contains (excess/deficiency + pH) helps to make for more informed applications...

My soil here is pretty acid which means I basically have to add everything - except iron. LOL

I was a bit skeptical about the need to add all sorts of fertilizers and boosters, thinking if I ensure I start of with good soil, happy worms and bugs and all that, I’d just have to make sure to keep the garden well watered and mulched, maybe extra manure once in a while, and the system would look after itself. Turns out I was big on soil amendments, but maybe a bit low on NPK, especially during flowering. I’m glad I was put onto Potash, looks good, healthy leaves and stronger flower necks and colours; yes please!
Do you PH test your soil, AutumnDamask?

Also having the right PH, helps and unbinds those nutrients for the uptake of the bushes of those nutrients.......

neptune wrote:Also having the right PH, helps and unbinds those nutrients for the uptake of the bushes of those nutrients.......

^^ Heck, yes!
Having a pH that is around 5 can be..... challenging....
I use lime but it works very slowly.

I dream about our soil getting as high as 5. Actually some is as high as 5.5 though most is 4 - 4.5 with some tests coming in at 3.5. The lower reading is old sandy crap that does not absorb water. Working hard at fixing these areas though.

So a PH test kit is worth it then? I though it would tell me only about acidity/salinity, and not really indicate which elements are actually missing or short.
If I’m pretty sure that my soil couldn’t be acidic (i.e., I made it), I thought it would be better to spend my $ on the things that are always good like seaweed or fish emulsions, etc. But if you’re saying that could be wasted unless the PH is exactly right, maybe I should get a kit. It’s quite expensive, isn’t it?

Balinbear wrote:I dream about our soil getting as high as 5. Actually some is as high as 5.5 though most is 4 - 4.5 with some tests coming in at 3.5. The lower reading is old sandy crap that does not absorb water. Working hard at fixing these areas though.

I was trying not to scare people... but since you mentioned it.... some of ours is 4.5 (subsoil) too. :/ Rainwater is coming in at 5 at moment too.

Hmmm .... so now I have to figure why MY roses sometimes fail to develop good feeder roots. Yours seem to go ok?

Jac, pH kits for gardens aren't that expensive for a basic one.
Definitely worth it. At least you know what you're dealing with.
Bearing in mind that high organic matter levels will naturally trend for a <7pH.
Things like seaweed are soil conditioners rather than mineral supplements per se. Very good though. It all helps!

OK, I’ll get one; actually I’m very curious now, thanks AutumnDamask.
What am I aiming for: 5, 6 or 7?

Hello Rosebuds, all plant nutrients are available between pH 6.0 to 7.0 with the best availability at slightly acidic at 6.5.. The other month we took delivery of some soil/compost mixture and i was in a hurry and didn't check the pH.. I am paying for it now at it is really alkaline at pH = 10.. so i am having to add iron chelates.. Luckily the 'soil' was placed in a raised tank bed and not near my roses.. so it is just affecting the Brussels sprouts. So not everyone is too worried about it here..

Jac2 wrote:So a PH test kit is worth it then? I though it would tell me only about acidity/salinity, and not really indicate which elements are actually missing or short.

Jac the soil kit test whether it is acidic or alkaline and they do not indicate what elements are missing. To do that you need to send your soil to a laboratory. You can get a meter or the soil kit from bunnings and they don't cost much

Thanks Hariet, 6.5 hey? Just like human skin to perform all its functions optimally, great to see another example of how all organisms are related somehow.
Don’t know what it is about Brussels sprouts, but I’m not even allowed to cook them for myself in this house; apparently just the smell is offensive.

Thanks, Neptune, alkalinity not salinity (oops). From Hariet’s comments I take it that my soil might even be a bit alkaline with all that extra manure I put in to really pamper them. Is it possible this could cause some yellowing of the leaves with scattered mottled green pigments, beyond what one might expect in places where the sun doesn’t shine?

Jac the yellowing sounds like an iron deficiecy but need to see a photo of it. The manure should not control your PH, only NPK ratio, even though they are not high

I’ve taken those leaves off now, purely for aesthetic reasons and they were not loose like the little sickly sun-deprived once. Will take a photo and post, if any more come up, but the affected bush is in a position where I know more manure ended up than in other places and just guessed.
If I see yellow mottled leaves that are quite secure on the bush, should I leave them on, i.e. will they recover after an iron shortfall is addressed?

if the yellow leaves look different than the BS ones, then you can leave it on.....if it is an iron deficiency, get some chelated iron and put in in a sprayer and spray the bush....it won't take long to see a change...spray early in the morning before sun hits it and no run forecast for at least six hours....

OK, this is what happens when you’re sitting in from of the computer, chatting, instead of actually being out there, working. It happened very quickly and I’m thinking this situation is probably serious; more yellow leaves on roses in pots and the ground:

The Sqire (ground – lots of buds about to open), my pride and joy in terms of leave growth (they’re so pretty) until a nest of grubs punched hundreds of little wholes into them.
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Brother Cadfael (pot – no buds yet) my otherwise completely healthy giant.
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Hercules (ground – blooming now) the first to show leaves like that
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Felicia (ground – about to finish a huge crop) just starting to show yellow leaves
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Tamora (pot – first to bloom and still blooming her head off) just starting to show yellow leaves
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Graham Thomas (ground – lots of buds just turning up) first yellow leaves today
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There is no blackspot as far as I’m aware. Up until about 2 wks. ago everything was hunky-dory here in terms of leave health, except with SDL Malmaison in her creppy pot. Three things happened around that time:

1. More buds and blooms developed (but not for all, some have been in bloom for some time)

2. Can’t shake the flu and spend less time in the garden (less water, but should be OK, everything’s well mulched up)

3. It suddenly got quite hot, especially during the last week

The Proverbial Black Spot

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Iron Deficiency

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The second reason for yellowing leaves is if the bush is under any kind of stress. In this case it's important to figure out what is stressing the rose bush or it could wind up dying. Stress can be caused by any number of factors including the amount of water and sun that the rose bush is getting, the temperature, the soil and more. Here are some things to check.

Are you overwatering or underwatering?

Many people make the mistake of either drowning their rose bushes or not giving them enough water. In warm temperatures rose bushes can can require large amounts of water -- even as much as 10lts a day when it's very hot out! Water the plant directly at the base rather than on the leaves. Make sure that the soil is thoroughly saturated. It is better to water deeply a couple of times a week instead of doing multiple shallow waterings.

Is the pH of your soil correct?

I know I have mentioned this before, but determine what breed of rose you have and look up what the pH of the soil should be. Most roses thrive at a pH of about 5.5-6.5. Test your soil and make sure it pH is in line with what the rose needs. If not, add products to the soil to alter the pH to a suitable level.

Are you over fertilizing or starving your rosebush?

Another of the most common reasons for yellow leaves is that either you are using too much fertilizer or not enough fertilizer. A good rule of thumb is that the more often your rose bush blooms, the more fertilizer it will need. Always follow the directions on the fertilizer package.

Does it need pruning?

Sometimes, rose bushes just become overgrown and need trimming back. If the rose bush gets too large or develops too many canes it will require more energy and can become stressed simply trying to stay alive. Trimming back some of the canes will allow the bush to focus its energy so it can thrive and grow.

Are the roots healthy?

Finally, make sure that no small animals/rodents have dug around the roots of the rosebush. If the roots of the plant are exposed it can lead to poor health. Simply fill in around the roots and make sure they are covered with soil.

Hopefully through a process of trial and error and by using some or either of these tips you can determine what is causing the leaves on your rosebush turn yellow. Once you eliminate the problem your rose should return to its normal, healthy self.

Oops ! ...one I forgot which I have suffered from it heat stress......where you have a relative cool winter and then suddenly hot heat......that also freaks the bushes out...

Wow, thanks! Again something I can keep.
Some of the spots do look a little black in the photos, but they’re actually dark green. It really looks more like your photo of iron-deprived leaves or it could be the sudden temperature change. I’m really surprised about how fast that happened.
So, it’s more water and chelated iron to spray on the leaves.

Did you say, determine what breed of rose I have and then look up what the pH of the soil should be for that breed? If so, is there an index for this kind of info somewhere, maybe a link?

Thank you so much again

jac it is so hard to individualise ph levels for each different bush, unless you had them in large pots . That way you could put a sticker on the side to say what ph level you want in that pot and something to aim for......in the garden, aim for 6.0-6.5 and you should be right . In the garden , there is too many variables for ph, such as ........soil, scheme water, rain water, bore/ground water, compost, manures effects , etc.

As you can see from the picture below , I have to deal with beach sand

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Wow Neptune...that is one sand profile! Have you excavated to replace the sand with loam? I visited a rose nursery near Byford (is that right?) last summer and bought some roses for my brother who lives at Mandurah - but i wasn't sure how to deal with sand at his place so i planted the roses (Fragrant cloud, Charles de Gaulle and Freisia) into pots - can i plant out into that beachy sand? I know rosa rugosa would handle it as i have found it growing in sand overseas. Just looked at your photo again .. hmmm looks like a lot of work.. my back is twinging..

Looks neat!
Gee my borders are nowhere near as graceful as that. I used to measure and mark all the curves carefully, but in a cottage garden that’s completely pointless. It constantly evolves and if plants want more space, I just let them have it.
What are you going to plant there and are you going to remove more of that sand?

Your right hariet. Had to replace soil as you can see below, but the root system is basically limited to the trench, as it won't go looking into the yellow sand as there is basically zero nutrients there.

@ jac....took out lawn there so I could plant more roses, then ran mondo grass around the edges...

PS: the trailer wasn't meant to end up in the trench....just reverse a little tooooooooo far and it fell in.....

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what it looks now

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