Nitrophoska Blue or Nitrophoska Special

I have always purchased Nitrophoska Blue or Blue Special as I like the colour blue on the ground. I don't need to use glasses to water it in or to spread it evenly. I can see it! Today I opened a bag and found that I had purchased Nitrophoska Special which has white pellets. Forgetting about the colour, what would be the rate of application? Nil or what? I hope it it OK as I don't think I will get a refund now it is opened and about six months since purchase.

Bonita

What does the pack say, Bonita? What's the difference?

Not much - just a tag attached to the string that closes the bag.
Only this -
N 12.2
P5
K14.1
S8

Incitec Pivot product

I found this, Bonita:

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It doesn't say anywhere what the application rate is. I found a broad-acre application reference of 250kg/ha (which breaks down to 250kg/10000m² = 25g/m²) but that's all and it was used in conjunction with something else afterwards (source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]). The crop was a vegetable crop. It won't hurt roses though.

The experts say throw a hanfull around onto the ground under the rose. Two if the plant is large more if the plant is larger.

I am not sure if a handfull is a scientific measure and I guess it depends on how big your hands are as well. Ugh so many variables!

However, I think that provided you don't throw the whole bag out on one plant you probably can't hurt them too much.

Gary, you are right, the old fashioned measure is 'what holds in the cup of the hand' is roughly 25gms. All of the Nitrophoskas are 'pretty' allround ferts. Lawns love them(golf and bowling clubs use them) if aplied prior or during rain you see the difference the next day.

Thank you to each of you for your answers. I feel confident enough to use it and see what happens.
Bonita

Judging by the NPK ratio it seems fairly mild. I generally use Gary's measure as well. Grab a handful and throw it around evenly. Just don't go overboard. I always like to water in fertilizer after applying, esp. in the absence of rain.

The factor thats probably more important is the PH of your soil ie acid/alkaline level .If your PH level is wrong fertilizers cant be properly absorbed
the ideal soil ph for Roses is 6.5 but from all accounts 6 to 7 is OK
I prefer to use Dolomite lime because it has no detrimental effect(unlike regular lime ) on Ericaceous plants ie ericas,azaleas,rhododendrons etc
Most Australian soils are on the acidic side and many plants like higher levels of lime eg roses,many vegetables,junipers,cypress,box,beech

Some of the best roses I ever grew were around 10 years ago on deep red acid soils. The plants were healthier, more robust, produced many more blooms and the flowers were often twice the size of normal. I now live on soil that is pretty much neutral verging on alkaline, yet the roses never perform as well despite constant feeding and deep mulching. I came to the conclusion long ago that pH really does not apply to roses.

You can only compare the soil in one area because so many other variables come into play .....as you say you grew great roses on deep red acid soil which sounds like a great start
To be accurate you would compare the roses on that deep red acid soil before and after added lime.Please take into account that lime incorporated into the top of your soil does take time to be absorbed and have an effect
A friend of mine was growing Japanese maples on deep red acid soil in
The Dandenongs but was getting some disease. When he did as I suggested and added extra lime the quality of his plants improved enormously
What is always interesting is to see what the PH is of the soils where roses grow in the wild....I dont know of hand
Many lime loving plants naturally originate in limestone territory
I grow tens of thousands of pencil pines which love lime and come from the meditteranean area

I've heard some prominent rose growers remark too that pH really does not matter. I guess some added lime may help, but this would need to be tested. It may, as with many things in gardening, just be a myth. It is true that many roses grow wild on limey soils. It is also true that many species have been found growing happily on quite acid soils. I prefer gypsum to lime and use it regularly. It has neutral pH or is only slightly alkaline. Perhaps the reality is that roses like a bit of calcium in their diet, which may help prevent disease too, which is actually a nutrient thing, unrelated to pH. The simple fact that calcium-rich soils are usually found naturally on limey soils may not prove that pH is an essential factor for rose growth.

Interesting post Ian
You say that perhaps the reality is that roses like a bit of calcium in their diet and that this is a nutrient thing ,unrelated to Ph
I have a quote from a soil analysis company called Spectrum Analytical
CALCIUM BASICS SOIL PH. "Acid soils have less Ca,and high Ph soils normally have more.As the soil Ph increases above 7.2 due to additional soil Ca etc
This tells us that Calcium is related to Ph which seems to be the opposite of your understanding
it would be interesting to know which wild species have contributed most of the genetics of our domestic garden roses.....Simon would probably have a good understanding of this and I would be interested to know

Our Teas etc grow great in our soil. PH 4 - 5. I supect some may be even lower.

We don't fertilize all that much but if what you are saying is correct in that they need the lime to increase the PH so they can absob the nuitiants better then I would hate to see how large etc they would grow.

We have tried lime in the past but it did not affect too much though as you said it takes considerable time for the lime to react with the soil.

Back to the initial question (i have a bad habit of getting sidetracked) It doesnt matter what concentrated fertiliser you use I find it safer to use it sparingly.
If the plants look like they are happy Ok ..otherwise add more sparingly
Much better than overfertilising
Back to ideal Ph....when the Ph is say too low for the rose plant it doesnt have the effect of locking up all nutrients. Often a low ph will lock up some trace elements that are essential to the plants health....the plant may be putting on good growth but is still not looking right

Jeff, is this a theory or proven fact to all plants(roses). I live on black loam on the side of a river, my roses get next to nothing, they survive with what nature gives them. Across this valley I live in we have many soil types, so do some soils have different mechanisms to release what is in them. Science(human) has no bounds on "Mother Nature".

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It's worth familiarising one's self with things like the chart above which shows the bioavailability of different mineral nutrients at different pH levels. The thinner the band the less available it is. Calcium has a pretty broad pH range. A pH of around 6-6.5 is going to give you good levels of both macro and micro nutrients. When the bands get thinner the ions form insoluble substances that are unavailable to the plants. If the plants come from more chalky soils then some nutrients (not calcium) become less bioavailable but the plants adapt to cope with lower concentrations of these accessible ions. It is also worth noting that continual addition of fertlisisers such as this lower the pH considerably. The lime may be buffering the excessive use of fertilisers to help maintain a more neutral pH.

What is the role of Iron Chelates. I had a new HT - Imperatice Farah which looked pretty yellow so I dosed it with Iron Chelates. It has responded well and new water shoots are coming either as a result of the treatment or in spite of it. No other roses surrounding it have the yellowy foliage.

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Bonita, this Wiki's answer to your question, Yellowing is 'normally' a deficiency, hope this helps.

I take no notice of pH. If they grow they grow. If they don't they don't. I know some places not far from where I live that are on the eastern side of the Range and on sand (probably high acid). You never see any roses growing around there, except for a few of the really hardy varieties. But I tend to think this is more to do with the constant heat and high humidity and the fact that the sand is poor and drains away the moisture too quickly. Moreso than pH. Really I prefer to put away all the test kits and probes and just grow roses where they will grow. Maybe I'm just lazy.

No.. don't think you are lazy... maybe just blest with soil that presents few problems I don't test anything anymore either... I don't need to because I can grow protea and waratah successfully... good enough indicator for me to let me know the ground is acidic. It is interesting to watch two of the same rose, one grafted onto Dr Huey and the other onto multiflora and watch the Dr Huey one fail because it hates acidic ground. I routinely regraft roses onto multiflora or strike them as cuttings because Dr Huey is a fail here in my acidic soil.

FWIW, iron deficiency in roses loks like this: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]