Ten Thousand Lights

I am just home (Sydney) from the Blue Mountains where, during the weekend, I bought the rose Ten Thousand Lights from a stallholder at the annual Leura Fair. She had just three little unlabeled plants of it, which instantly caught my eye. It looked like a China, the flowers were quite beautiful and the plants just exuded health and vigour. She told me it was "Thousand Lights" and that she had had it, as cuttings, from a very generous Bob Cherry. As many will know, Bob Cherry of Paradise Plants at Kulnura, is a famed plant collector and breeder of plants, particularly camellias. Sold!

As I walked around the fair with it, half a dozen gardening types stopped me to inquire about it and to coo over the flowers.

I planted it in my Katoomba garden and cranked up Help Me Find the second I had unloaded the car back in Sydney. I note that it doesn't seem to be available commercially (except in the way that I bought it) and that Simon acquired cuttings a couple of years ago. I also noted with horror - given the front-of-bed position in which I planted it - that it is said to reach 3 metres in height and to hate being pruned.

Simon, how is it going for height with you? And have you tried pruning? I am also curious to know, if anyone has any more info, whether Bob Cherry collected it personally or Dr Neil Mitchell. The HMF reference is ambiguous.

Bruce, Ozeboy, has it, so where did he get it

They have it growing at Renmark and it is quite large 2 - 3m high on a trellis.

Or maybe it was at Margaret Furness's place. I know I saw it when we were on holidays last November. (yep it was at margarets I checked HMF)

I think Bruce may have gotten it from Margaret. Is that right Bruce?

Ok, Margaret, has it, Bruce gets it from Margaret, "where" did Margaret get it, "if" it is not for sale in Australia

Dave I have three growing here in Deniliquin as well

Same Question Warren, 'how did it get here' if it is not for sale, don,t unless you can without getting into trouble

I have two plants growing from cuttings I got last year (the first lot failed on me). They went into the ground over winter and are just starting to get a move on. One looks muchg better than the other. I planted the two plants close together where they can grow into each other to help support each other. In the position they have been put they can get as big as they want but I will be giving keeping them to about 2m. My two had flowered on-and-off all winter and kept their leaves. I also have seedlings from Viru's plant of '10,000 Camelias Red China Rose' which is very similar to '10000 Lights'. My seedlings are a single pink and a semi-double pink, and another small one that hasn't flowered yet. These were put in the ground over winter as well and are only now beginning to wake up. I'm hoping the frost we had last night hasn't hurt them. They are wonderful roses, Meryl. I'm sure you will love them. I will be pruning them like I prune Teas.. lightly from an early stage just to remove frost damaged growth and then I will do most of the pruning by dead-heading often.

Sorry Guys, I have been busy and didn't see the above posts until now. Margaret does look in on the Forum and has sent the following information this evening.

Cherry and Mitchell collected it in a combined expedition-also other plants and other roses including the Lijiang Rd Climber and a Chinese understock which is sold in Australia as Double Purple Chinese Multiflora. Dreary name so I relabelled it " 99 Dragon" for the region where they collected it. It has been passed around in Heritage Rose Circles-mine came from Pat Toolan, who gave it to Bob Cherry. It has been suggested that it may be the rose being sold at stalls in Queensland as Red-pink China or some name along those lines.

Thanks Margaret.

My budwood came from? Not for public information just phone or Email me.

Ok, so how long ago did Cherry and Mitchell go on "expedition" to China ?
Did it come back through customs as plant material, or seed.
The question also goes to you Simon, 'how' was yours obtained ?
I guess I am sinical, is there a "secret" society within the rose growing ferternity within Australia. David.

David, sometimes you can ask too many questions, would suggest you aquire one and enjoy. Failing this then drop the idea.

I have something to change your mind set, put on your Steptoe cap and concentrate on a dud rose I have for you. It's Waltzing Matilda which I did hear was bred overseas. Great name but poor rose- can't we get some of our better Aussie bred roses out there with a high profile. I was shocked as this rose does not do the name justice. David I think this is a worthwhile project for an Aussie born country guy so please accept the challenge.

Sorry, we should be talking about a Chinese rose and not an Aussie icon.

David, sorry to be a little blunt re highlighting this rose as I did hear it was on the "Don't talk about it List", even though collection was within the quarantine laws.

Here is the latest from Margaret who can't post on the forum but wishes to do so again. Perhaps Simon can make this possible.

The Cherry & Mitchell expedition was in 1992( This info is on the HMF page for the Lilijaing Rd Climber) I think they did another expedition as well. It was a legitimate expedition and what they collected was sent to Britain to be grown on in quarantine before transfer to Australia through AQUIS. I understand that Bob Cherry has sold plants of the Ten Thousand Lights as a charity fund raiser, as well as sharing cuttings with old rose lovers.
The provences of roses in the Heritage Rose Collections arn't stated on the HRIA website, to protect the privacy of individuals. Some donors have specifically requested that the provence of their roses not be stated, eg a church which has suffered losses of rare roses from theft. However the provenence is recorded and is available to researchers.
If something on the planting list at Renmark(On the HRIAI website, not the Ruston's roses one) isn't for sale. Budwood can be bought from Ruston's once the plants are big enough

I don't know that it is on a do not talk about list. I've not encountered any 'cloak and daggerisms' around this rose. That it was found and brought back by Mitchell and Cherry is/was common knowledge as it has been published on HMF for years. I found it on HMF, loved it, made the enquiry about where cuttings can be obtained and I had two offers for material. My two plants came from cuttings from one of those sources. I am happy to supply cuttings myself once it is old enough and large enough in the same way as I am happy to supply cuttings of my own '10,000 Camelias Red China Rose' seedlings when they are more mature. It is slow growing down here, however, and it may be some time before suitable material is ready to take.

Margaret decided some time ago that she would free up some time for HRiAI duties and so relinquished her membership here. I would love her to reopen an account when/if she finds she has the time and am glad she is keeping tabs on what is going on and is posting through Bruce on matters she has expertise and interest in, like this.

The ones I have are blooming nicely at 9 weeks old. No " cloak and daggerisms" just told by someone who should know to give it a low profile,

Thanks, everyone. Helpful and interesting.

Bruce, my apologies for not realising you stock it. I think someone on HMF remarked at an earlier time that it wasn't available commercially and I didn't think to check for an update on that. You certainly have some fascinating rarities.

Ozeboy wrote:The ones I have are blooming nicely at 9 weeks old. No " cloak and daggerisms" just told by someone who should know to give it a low profile,

Isn't that statement contradictory.

If it was me that said it (I don't remember), the only reason I can think of to make it low-profile would be to avoid selling it in direct competition with Bob Cherry's charity sales. Along the lines of not buying Bishop's Lodge roses from anyone but the Friends of Bishop's Lodge, and not giving out cuttings of them. But I have a feeling that his sale was a one-off event, so it's open slather now.

No, wasn't you Margaret, however it was a VIP Rose Person to take notice of and I'm not mentioning any names.

The secret "society" at work again, why is life like this, why not be open about things if "anyone" is going to post on here. If any member places it on here I woul;d have thought it was open for discussion, That is MY opinion and that is all I will say, Reagards David.

David did I tell you about the two dud roses I have for you?

Thanks Bruce you did, I know one is Ebb Tide I am not sure what the other one is ?
It will be ages before we make the trip to Sydney to see you but maybe Karen will be coming down, I will ask her at the weekend.

Carole, it will be my pleasure to give it to Karen for you as we haven't caught up with one and other for a long time.
The two roses I have for you apart from ET is ' Lubra ' and
' Waltzing Matilda ', both old HT's , do you want these as well?

I definitely am hankering after Ten Thousand lights after seeing the photos of it. Could you graft me one please, Bruce ?

Yes please Bruce
Thank you so very much.

This is a glorious rose. One of the best china roses in my opinion and I am so grateful that Mitchell & Cherry went to all the trouble and expense to import it.
I put in a handful of cuttings of this rose about 6 months ago. Only one is showing some signs of growing. At least it has sent out some new leaves. All the others carked it. It is very difficult from cuttings as it has really long, skinny stems that don't have many good prominent nodes. I can understand why it dislikes heavy pruning.

I will ask the question from a learner, who, is Mitchell