One for Mr W

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'Just Joey' for you Mr W This is its first flower since planting it this winter. Nice strong grower too... This JJ was produced by Rankins, who also do most the Delbards. I think with this rose it makes a BIG difference where you get it.

Why is that Tas? Virus or what?

Virus, quality of the understock, quality of the budwood... all these things.

Great photo TasV ! This rose always stands out when you see it in people's gardens.
My Just Joey is small, but it has a nice cane I noticed yesterday so hopefull it will take off now.

This is my Just Joey, so which is correct?

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Does your Just Joey get frilly petals Betty? It really needs wavey petals to be Just Joey. I am told Lolita is similar but I have not seen Lolita. Also roses are frequently mis labled. I have had it happen to me a few times.

Betty, sorry to give the bad news as I see it, Simon's version is the correct one.

Simon's doesn't look anything like the rose in the book 500 Popular Roses for Australian Gardeners, colour-wise I mean. The photo in that book shows a rose the same colour as mine and no more frilly than it. Page 172 if anyone has the book. As for does it get frilly petals, sorry, can't tell as I've only had a couple of flowers on it so far. There is one about to bloom soon.

I think it is very likely that BOTH are the right version. Features such as flower colour and form a not 100% reliable. Keep in mind I live in Tasmania and you in VIC and I have seen many variations of this rose over the years myself. One flower may not be like the next even on the same bush, especially over the course of a year or even a few years. The frilly petal is a common feature of this variety. Macoby's Roses shows the frilly petals in the same colour as the one in my photo whereas the photo in Botanica does not show overly ruffled petals. This does not mean they aren't the same plant. If you look on HMF ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]) you will see many variations of this variety. On the first page of photos you will see forms that look like mine and forms that look like yours taken in different places at different times of the year etc. Seeing as yours is still quite new you too may notice that over time you will also find the flower colour and form will vary. When trying to ID a rose I would regard colour and form as useful but not conclusive and would prefer to concentrate on more consistent features such as leaf form, leaf colour, thorn shape, stipules, glands, fragrance, stem colour, sepal shape, bud shape, shape of the hips, rachis thorns, shape of the seed even (which has been shown to be very maternal. That is, consistently the same regardless of what pollen fertilises the flower) etc. Some colours are what they call phototropic. This means they change in response to environmental conditions such as heat. My ambient temperature here during summer is nothing like yours in VIC and so the intensity of the colour in my JJ may not develop to the same level as yours. I have also noticed that flower form varies throughout the course of the year. Flowers often start the year fuller with more petals and as summer approaches the petal count falls and colours intensify etc.

So... enjoy your 'Just Joey' and look forward to seeing just what a chameleon it can be.

Simon wrote: When trying to ID a rose I would regard colour and form as useful but not conclusive and would prefer to concentrate on more consistent features such as leaf form, leaf colour, thorn shape, stipules, glands, fragrance, stem colour, sepal shape, bud shape, shape of the hips, rachis thorns, shape of the seed even (which has been shown to be very maternal. That is, consistently the same regardless of what pollen fertilises the flower) etc. Some colours are what they call phototropic. This means they change in response to environmental conditions such as heat. My ambient temperature here during summer is nothing like yours in VIC and so the intensity of the colour in my JJ may not develop to the same level as yours. I have also noticed that flower form varies throughout the course of the year. Flowers often start the year fuller with more petals and as summer approaches the petal count falls and colours intensify etc.

So... enjoy your 'Just Joey' and look forward to seeing just what a chameleon it can be.

If I see a tag like this on a rose, Simon, and it blooms and is not like that colour, I'd be rather annoyed.
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However, I know what you mean about colour intensity. Do you have Lavender Pinnochio? I was told that mine was not the right colour, when I am 100% certain it is Lavender Pinnochio. Too pink I was told. Totally different conditions here though.
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It starts off exactly the right way .
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Ahhhh... this is something entirely different. Label photos are not to be taken as gospel truth for lots of reasons. I don't have lavender Pinnochio... but this is common to many many roses. To be honest, if anyone says a rose is not a rose just by the shade of its colour... I would be... skeptical of their knowledge. Anyone who has grown roses for long enough knows that rose colour, form, and habit, is as much a product of its culture, the season, and environment as it is the genetics behind it. Rose label photos are a guide only and may well be colour altered too. Modern labels are much better due to better printing processes but are still, more often than not, studio shots done in controlled lighting conditions etc. In your label photo of 'Just Joey' you can see the ruffling along the edges of the rose. My 'Just Joey' pictured above has indeed produced flowers of this colour as well at different times of the year and the ruffling was a variable feature as well. This was its first flower for the year, its largest, and the most ruffled. I can't show you any photos as I didn't photograph it but there was lots of variation in the blooms throughout the year. No one is saying yours isn't what you say it is... just be aware that roses often have many looks.

I would be surprised if Just Joey changed colour that much here, Simon. Roses not only do well in this area, they seem to be very intense in their colouring. And, if the label colour = the colour of the rose in my books = the colour of the rose on my bush, then I'm happy . They are what they are supposed to be.
I showed dogs and horses, so colour is important to me. I do not look at a dog or horse that had a poor diet or was left outside to have a sun damaged, bleached coat and call it a good specimen of the particular colour it should be(meaning sable, blue merle or tricolour). The aim, for showing, was always to bring out the true, rich colour. When speaking of Shetland Sheepdogs I have only sables and in the Standard they ask that " in its shade the colour should be rich in tones(or hue, words to that effect.) Hubby and I always thought wishy washy coloured horses were not worth showing, so I think it's natural I should want true colours in my garden.
I reckon if there was a big difference to what it should be I'd say conditions aren't ideal for that particular rose and if it was something I couldn't correct then I'd maybe not bother growing it. I doubt that I'd ever show roses but wouldn't judges be looking for the lovely coppery orange colour of Just Joey as much as any other point to do with it?

I'm afraid then Betty you might be in for a bit of disappointment in the rose department then That's one of the things I love about roses... their interpretation of the 'standards book' is more... 'fluid' than that and there really isn't anything we can do about it... even with the best culture or intervention.

I breed and show rabbits (wool rabbits these days) and also breed rare-breed poultry. My main poultry breed is the Buff Orpington (rare as the proverbial hen's teeth down here) and breeding a good buff is really hard. The colour 'buff' just has so many different nuances and the breed standard is exacting. I have just bred my best two buff orpington EVER this year... one is a cockerel and he's the most beautiful bird ever. His Dad, however, has dark wing bars (or coverts) and his Mum is a little light... combined they have made such a lovely rich colour that he almost glows. The other is a pullet who has also missed out on the dark wing bars and has a lovely even distribution of colour in a lovely shade of buff. You could say I'm chuffed with these buffs I've stewarded at the rabbit show at the Sydney Royal Easter Show and have a long history in breeding and showing rabbits and understand what you mean about breeding exacting colours to meet standards... that's why I gave up breeding broken pattern minilops because it was so hard to get the correct colour and pattern and there were so many disaqualifications that you needed to breed so many to have just the slightest chance and then inbreed the line to death once you got there that I couldn't ethically keep going given the number of bunnies in rescue shelters around the country. So I have a pretty good idea what you mean about having a standard for your colours and acknowledge that yes, colour IS important in showing... but like I said, this is what I love about roses... they don't read the standards books. In fact, chemically speaking, they have no choice what shade of a colour they are in a lot of cases. The pigments giving them colour respond chemically to a given set of conditions and will vary according to how these conditions change. Take 'Mutabilis' for instance. Its flowers begin yellowish and end up reddish in response to age of the flower. Never have I ever seen the colours in 'Peace' so vibrant as when I lived in Moree in NW NSW. The hot dry climate really brought the best out of it. It wasn't until 'Double Delight' was bred that people began to realise how these pigments could be utilised to create roses that did change on purpose. Teas are also a prime example of how softer pastel or muted tones can create the most beautiful depth and range of colours of any rose I know of. If you get a chance have a look at Cree's photos and you will see what I mean. Of course there are SOME roses that seem to be more spectrally stable, and they are often pink, but 'Just Joey' isn't one of them around here and I love it for this reason... uniformity is boring to me. You also need to keep in mind that roses are not like animals. We aren't breeding them and tryng to make them fit a standard. We are cloning them and your 'Just Joey' has the same genetic blueprint that mine does. In animal breeding you are putting on show your stockmanship. Roses of a particular variety, on the other hand, are mass-produced clones of the orginal seedlings.

So... I guess I'm just trying to say that a label photo is taken at a certain time of the year, under certain conditions, the plant might infact be grown in a climate/disease controlled glasshouse under studio lighting so who is to say what the true colour is? I would say that the colour of my 'Just Joey' is the true colour for this rose in this location at that time of year. The flowers that appeared later in the year were smaller and darker and I would say that was their true colour for that time of the year in this location. I would say yours is the true colour and form for this rose in your location for this time of year and you may well experience more uniform expression of the colour than I do... doesn't make them different though. I hope you enjoy your roses for their many faces and the overall effect this can create in the garden and if you don't then there are those that do have fewer looks and you can spend your time acquiring and appreciating these. That's the other thing I love about roses... there's some for every taste

Green thumbs,

Simon

Can someone please tell me who Mr. W is . I am confused Carole

Mr Wisteria... one of the members who joined from GE.

Carole wrote:Can someone please tell me who Mr. W is . I am confused Carole

He is also WWW on my forum Carole

Simon wrote: Never have I ever seen the colours in 'Peace' so vibrant as when I lived in Moree in NW NSW.
Simon

Maybe there is a blessing after all to living in our hot, dry Wimmera? Although my sister lives over 200 miles away, different conditions altogether, and her Just Joey always looks like mine. As I say though, I'll let you know if mine alters.

Okay, this is what 4 inches of rain and some very cold weather did to my Just Joey - it made it think it was living in Tasmania! LOL
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It was taking absolutely forever for it to open so I bought it inside and almost prised the first petal open. This should be the last bloom before it goes dormant and hopefully it will be back to normal come the Spring. Whatever normal is. I never thought I could grow a rose with such a BIG flower.

I love your impatience Betty! Fancy pulling it open, Thats the sort of thing I would do.
My Valencia has been making big fat buds last week and the rain has been rotting them so I have done the same as you and brought them inide to open up. It is a great delight watching them unfolding and breathing in the first perfume.

Most of mine are rotting on the bushes and covered with aphids so I ma just cutting them all off less to prune in a month or so, I have started on a few

I gently prised it open, Dee. The first petals were quite strong and once they were moved it just did its thing. That rose was 6 inches accross, and I'd thought I was destined only to grow little ones. That's impatience again. LOL.
Cheryl, don't let them rot, that seems a terrible waste. Squish the aphids and bring the roses into the warm. I envy you having them.

I have 1000,s of the little buggers and dont want to spray at this stage, so cutting of and into the bin My aphids are building up their immune systems

I have three just joeys and each one is different ,but I love them all no matter what ,yes roses can differ very much all over the place I also have lavender pinnochio as well and mine isnt as dark as bettys ,but no matter as it is a lovely rose in any case