Noid Tea

Hello,
I am new here and have joined at the suggestion of Ozrose,-thankyou ozrose-after I tried to have an old Tea Rose I have growing in my garden identified.
It is very much like Mons Tillier in foliage,growth habits,bud/bloom size and fragrance-although in my garden-not as tall growing. The blooms are in a carmine pink-crimson shade...not actually what I would call a red. Nearly always the blooms never open flat as with Mons Tillier but tend to keep the half opened vase shape,which I do like and I don't need to use cutters when picking as the stems snap cleanly and easily.
Hoping someone here can help.Thanks

Hi and welcome to Rose Talk. Do you have any photos we can look at? If you are unsure of how to post them here send them to me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and I will post them for you. Most of us here will then sit down with the Tea book and compare the photos with those in the book. Based on the description you have given I'm thinking 'General Schablikine' or 'General Gallieni'... 'Papillon' maybe... but 'General Schablikine' is my first guess...

Thanks Simon-will do.In the meantime I will check those roses out that you suggested.
Expect an email soon..

Here's the pics you sent:

I don't think it is any of the ones I mentioned above at all.

The long sepals have me thrown...

Does anyone grow "Souvenir de Therese Levet'? Does she get those long feathrey sepals?

No unfortunately I don't think so either,but thanks anyway for your help. What I do have to say though is that the colour is not red or burgandy as the pictures seem to convey.

'Francius Dubreuil' doesn't have these long sepals either.. TBH it's looking more China to me than Tea though there is a photo in the Tea book of Australia's 'Papillon' with long sepals.

Beales 'Monsier Tillier' has long sepals but it's a climber

Just took a walk in the dark to have a look at our teas. Bit hard to say if the colour in the photos is not correct. Maybe a Souvenir d'un Ami. They are smaller growing than Mons Tillier but are very similar in flower just a bit different in colour. They do open up red like you show and ours appear to have medium lenght sepals.

A lot of teas open up with buds like the colour you have. Some are pink others nearly red.

Papalon is a bit of a red but ours always have a bit of cream on the flower. Sounds to big to be a Francis Dubreuil. Beales Mons Tillier has a different flower and as said is a climber.

It could be a Princess de Sagan some of our buds have long sepals others don't but it does not open out like a Mons Tillier.

Identification of roses can be a confusing operation.

No definitely not the gorgeous Mons Tillier,which I have grown-10ft giants . It does have very very similar characteristics in growth structure,foliage shape/formation,size and form of buds and the same ripe peach/tea fragrance,hence why I have believed it to be a *Tea*.The bush would be approx 5ft tall and has been at that height for years although it has been pruned back recently.

I checked out Souvenir d'un Ami and the colour doesn't match,much paler than this one

I was thinking 'Princess de Sagan' too... some people class it as a China and some of the pics on HMF show long sepals.

Teas can vary in colour depending on the weather, siol type etc. Ours are pale in summer and darker (almost but not quite red) in the cooler months.

However, after reading you original post again I am leaning towards Princesse de Sagen. Very rarely do ours open up fully and the buds are the same red. Ours dont have the white in them that is shown in the Tea Book and some have the long sepals shown in your photo.

bri-cal

Where are you in SE Qld? I live on the Sunshine Coast.

Princess de Sagan rings a bell somewhere but I can't find a clear enough image on google search.
Balin,I'm west of Toowomba

bri-cal

Where are you in SE Qld? I live on the Sunshine Coast.

Dalby west or Miles west?

I have a photo on our Gallery. The colour is not the best as they are redder than shown.

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The photos on help me find are not all that good as far as colour goes either

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I vaguely remember that name*Princess de Sagan* from somewhere but at this stage I can't pinpoint from where ...I think you might have it Balin,thanks so much...I will try and take pics again soon with another camera,it just may show a truer colour image .

The rose sold as Princesse de Sagan in Aus may be incorrect; possibly Professeur Ganiviat, according to the tealadies. Have a look at both on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It has a leaden-grey cast to the leaves, which your pics don't show, I think.
Do you know Penny McKinley's nursery in Pittsworth? Maybe you could take a spray or two with flower, bud, leaves, prickles to show her. Does it set hips?
The Heritage Roses conference this year is in Brisbane in early October.
(Passing comment - the roses sold as Francis Dubreuil and Beales' M Tillier aren't Teas. They smell too good!)
If Penny doesn't know it, I'd love to try cuttings (mid-November onwards) - we are always looking for unidentified foundlings for the Tea-Noisette-China (and Early HT) Collection at Renmark. Growing them near others is helping the experts (I'm not one) ID a few.

Hi Balin,Margaret and anyone else looking in,I have just sent an email to Simon with more pics,taken on another camera...so this may shed more light on it's true identity...I am swaying towards PdS.. hopefully Simon will be able to post them soon.

Here are some photos sent to me over the last few days (note: It seems it is timely to encourage people to try and follow the tutorial on posting images here and to take up my offer of individual assistance if required. I have recently simplified the tutorial significantly. You can see the tutorial here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

1. From Margaret with the accompanying email:

I don't have good pics of the rose sold as Princesse de Sagan, but have attached one I took at the Adelaide Botanic gardens. The colour of flowers and leaves is lighter than it should be, but it shows the shape. Some of my bud photos show long sepals.
Cheers,
Margaret

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From Bri-cal:

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Not a comment on ID of rose, but the pictures taken by a different camera. These look more like a picture of a real rose rather than what the camera sees

I think the leaves of your rose may be more serrated. Hard to be sure.
Margaret

So what do you think then Balin...does it look to be the same as your PdS...these last pics seem to convey the colour better.