"Litl' Romeo"

A few weeks back I bought "Litl' Romeo" [JACmouse] aka. "Disneyland Rose" on a whim because it has really nice foliage (large & glossy but paper-thin IYKWIM?). I knew nothing about this rose at all & it came with no picture on the tag so when I got home I researched it & have been waiting patiently for it's buds to open. Well I am very glad I took a chance on it:

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Does anyone else grow this rose & is it healthy for you?

I've often found with these really thin leaves that they don't offer much disease resistance. How does this one fair?

LOL Simon that is exactly my (very real) concern because I have found that as well!

It seems to be OK so far but the rain I am getting atm will soon tell the real story! Because it is bred from 2 minis ("Sequoia Gold" x "Hot Tamale") I would like to use it in a few crosses but I am just not sure yet (of course it could pass on health even if unhealthy itself I suppose?!?).

In other news, I have 2 "Agnes Bernauer" (OP) seedlings about to flower for the first time & an angel wings rose seedling came up! Happy days...

I haven't planted my Angel Wing seeds yet... must do that... back at work now and running out of free time

I am about to get really busy too so I am running around getting as much done as possible!

The angel wing seedling is very strong (it suprised me because the seeds are so small) & I hope more come up. I got the seeds on Dec 10, put them in the fridge until Jan 10 & the seedling came up on Feb 3rd.

Did it sprout in the fridge for you?

No! I just put all the seeds from the 3 packets into 1 bag & kept them in the fridge for a month. The seeds looked exactly the same when taken out as they did when they went in.

Also, I was going to wait to sow the seeds until August/ September but I have "Mutabilis" again now & I want to move things along...towards that mini-"Mutabilis" I dream of!

Speaking of which... I put 'Mutabilis' onto 'Temple Bells' this morning Along with 'Lamarque', and 'Golden Chersonese' (which is kinda weird... she's a once flowerer but every year about this time she throws out random scattered flowers... which is perfect timing for me ) Putting 'Mutabilis' onto these Angel Wing seeds is an awesome idea... did you read the thread on RHA about them? They aren't Rosa chininsis 'minima'... they are multiflora 'nana' descendants...

Good evenin' Simon,

I think there is loads of potential in "Temple Bells" & I am sure you feel this way too. I really like the thought of "Temple Bells" x "Lamarque" (& the others you have done) & I have thought about crossing it with "Chromatella" myself (great minds & all that!!! ).

I did see the thread on RHA but wasn't certain of what the final conclusion was! LOL It was great to learn that these roses have a place to play in breeding...

Quick question Simon! Would you ever use "Queen Elizabeth" in a cross as seed parent these days or is it best left in the past? I have 8 blooms of it ready in a few days (& 3 on its sport "Shell Queen") but I keep thinking that I shouldn't bother. I have no idea what I would put over it but...

I don't know Damian... I guess it depends on what you want to put on it. Given 'Shell Queen' is a sport of QE it will probably breed in an identical manner (as far as passing on traits etc... I don't know whether it is physically as able to set hips as QE... if that makes sense...). I guess it also depends on what your goal is. It certainly has been used plenty of times as both a seed parent and a pollen parent. It's interesting in that the pollen parent of QE is 'Floradora' which is what Ralph Moore used with Rosa wichurana to make his famous 0-47-19. In fact Mr Moore also used QE a few times himself. QE has 1,036 descendants listed so it is fertile with 212 in just the first generation. It is such a big rose with strong straight stems it would be hard to match with something I reckon... what about it with your 'Chromatella' (great rose by the way... awesome rose actually!!!) to try for climbers... or something a little more limber to try for something in the pillar rose range??? I've never grown it because I always remember the one in my Mum's rose garden as a kid that grew up and into the eaves of our two story house... I was reading a while back on Paul Barden's website about it. I went back this evening to grab the bit that grabbed me:

Having spoken with Ralph Moore of California about breeding stock, I have decided to include Queen Elizabeth in my breeding plans, and have begun experimenting with it widely. Mr. Moore feels that this rose has much more to offer than breeding efforts to date has yet revealed, and so I will cross it with Austin's, Teas, Bourbons, and others to see what results I can conjure. This year I have bred it with roses like 'Souvenir de la Malmaison', 'Eugène de Beauharnais', and 'Lyda Rose'.

From: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That should give yo a few ideas

As far as leaving a rose in the past... well... IMO I reckon with a lot of modern roses the way they are one needs to back track a bit to the point where things went pear shaped and try something different .

BTW... here's the link to the Angel Wings thread on RHA: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] in case you want to go back and see what the conclusion was...

Thankyou so much for all that information Simon...you never fail to get me thinking & keep me interested!

Yes! "QE" is a biggie isn't she? Strong winds knock her about here but she just keeps growing.

I once saw a plant of "Chromatella" in full bloom grown in a tree overhanging a footpath in Yass & it was breathtaking. I stood under it for ages. Last time I went back to Yass the tree was gone & of course the rose was gone too!

Both "QE" & "SQ" set OP hips like crazy here every year. They are in a corner of my garden (with "Aquarius", "Blessings", "Carla" & "Olympic Torch") that doesn't get much attention yet they just grow & I appreciate them for this.

I think I will put "Fabulous" (yes "Fabulous" LOL) over both & see what comes of it assuming I can get some pollen from it. Failing that I will try "Maggie"...

BTW Since I discovered "Fabulous" is a parent of "Cherries 'n' Cream" I have liked it a bit more haha, the latter being very healthy here!

I think you are right about going back a bit & finding suitable older roses that still have much to offer. I plan on using "Centenaire de Lourdes" a lot in the future & I think other roses such as "Nana Mouskouri" & "Eyepaint" still have something to offer when crossed with excellent more recent introductions!

'Fabulous!' huh... I'm under-whelmed LOL might as well just use 'Iceberg'

I'm under-whelmed by "Iceberg" & always have been LOL...at least "Fabulous" has "Sexy Rexy" in it (& it has both good & bad points like all other roses).


Oh well...it was all I could think of to use (and what is ready atm)...

I remembered & found what Paul Barden said about "Fabulous" (in RHA on Feb 27, 2009) that made me think it might be the right rose to use:

"I would consider Zary's 'Fabulous' instead, which has been used for breeding, with good results..."

I was thinking that some "QE" x "Fabulous" seedlings might be reduced in size with a better growth habit & with better bloom shape because of "Fabulous" but still hardy & healthy because of "QE"!

I suppose the only way to know things for sure is to trust my instincts & go for it! You watch, the results (if any) will be awful!

Update: "Litl' Romeo" isn't too bad for BS afterall! It did get a bit after 4 days of rain but it seemed to outgrow the minimal BS it picked up IYKWIM? Time will tell more though ...

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It's new growth is very "bronze" (???) & everything is very glossy.