Roses In Clay Soil

Hi
I have some roses that I got from rosemeadow and one of her friends.
I just need to know if what i have read is correct please.

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Soil preparation

Roses are long-lived, so long as they have soil deep enough for the roots to hold the plant firmly in place. The ideal soil for rose dos rich in matter; compost is best, and decayed cow manure is also very good. Roses grow well in clay because clay retains moisture and nutrients, but they will also grow on most other soils, especially when organic matter is added. If your soil is heavy clay you will need to break it up with a mattock hen ass organic matter and gypsum, to help break it down into a more friable loam.


and this one

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When planting a rose, the first thing to do is place the roots in a bucket of water containing a small amount of seaweed concentrate. Roses love clay but it is not a requirement, most roses grow well in a fine, crumbly loam that has been cultivated with old manure and compost. Dig a hole and test it for size. If the roots are too large, do not bend them, either dig a wider hole or trim them. Ensure that you still leave a good root system.


and

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Choose plants that like clay soils. Roses love clay. Lots of native plants don’t.

I have dug into the ground as best as i can.

Is it ok to plant my roses in soil that does have clay.
thank you

I just dig a deep hole and put them in with the graft below the ground, but I have got deep good soil naturally already. I put a heavy layer of mulch around the roses too now, if I can.

It's true that roses don't mind a bit of clay in their diet... but there are clays and there are CLAYS [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.].
All clays will benefit from the addition of organic matter... it pays to know what kind of clay you have. Take some clay soil and moisten it a little, roll it into a ball and drop it in a glass of water. If it breaks apart easily your clay will respond well to gypsum. If it remains balled up adding gypsum will be a waste of money.

Most of the very best roses I have seen have been growing in Clay with some top soil. Clay contains a lot of nutrients that don't seem to come in our fertilisers. I call it " The unidentified plant growth factor"

I am still searching and recently aquired some Millmud from David ( McKay Qld ) hoping it contains the illusive nutrient.

The soil in my garden is very sandy so i added heaps of well rotted horse manure. The roses seem to love it. Papa Meilland climber has grown from a bare rooted rose in mid August to about 9ft high at the moment...41/2 months. Apart from the manure, i add a little blood and bone and some seaweed concentrate occassionally and they seem to be growing well.

Hi Everyone
I am really sorry for not replying back to you sooner, but my pc just shuts down on me without me knowing it is going to do it.
I will do the test that Simon mentioned.
I dont have horse manure here but i do have some cow manure left.
I also have some blood and bone and seasol as well.
I guess the roses that i got should grow really well then.
Thank you everyone
hugssssss
Lu

Well done Wedge, I can't get that sort of growth with new ownroot using the same things you are using. Are you sure it's not the recycled once used XXXX. Or could be the Qld weather, " Beautiful one day and perfect the next".

No it's not any of those it's Cane Toad droppings that is the secret.
The premium mix could have a few dead toads in it as well.
We have Charley Carp why not Terry Toads. Eradication would be great for the environment.

If people accept the global warming crap then you would not have any trouble selling the Premium Terry Toad fertiliser.

Had better stop I am out of control.

Hahahaha Ozeboy...i think you're onto something there. I can see it now...Wedgeboy's rose fertiliser....great on roses...picked fresh this morning from the roadways of sunny Queensland !!! Hehehe. You started this Ozeboy!!!!

Put it on your roses though and they might croak

Hahahaha...good one Simon !!! If i put it on my roses m8, they might have to be toad away !! With this rain we are having, it sounds like frog's hollow here tonight with all the frogs croaking !!

You lot are so funny!




And strange...........................................

The frogs here were having a big croaking party down at the creek the other night, I noticed when I walked down that way.

It sounds like frog's hollow here again tonight Rosemeadow. We've got heaps of green tree frogs around here and the lil' buggers poop all over your window sills.

Funny, Funny

I'm having soil issues myself. I have heavy clay on one side of my garden bed - and by heavy I mean *heavy*. I've been trying to break it up with gypsum over the past week, and today the rains came. Unfortunately my garden bed is now a swimming pool. I haven't tried adding organic material yet - but looking at the state of this garden bed, my expectations are very low. How long until I know if the gypsum has worked?

Secondly, my block is virtually flat, so is a raised bed the best solution?

RitaG suggested "My tip is that you should, unless you already have excellent soil, buy rich organic loam and still add cow and chook and mushroom compost to it. Build it up rather than dig it in and use fish emulsion every two weeks till your new plantings are settled in."

I also read that another option is "double digging", which sounds like alot of work to me. Does anyone have any experience with "double digging"?

Thanks, Milly

Hi Milly,
I am from England and if we didn't plant roses in clay or in some areas clay and chalk we wouldn't have any roses.
Hope this helps - maybe not

I have a book somewhere called something like Lasanga Gardening... basically it is an extension of no-till gardening. You pile up loads of organic goodies in layers like lasanga. It recommends certain orders to put things, which I can't be bothered following, but in the end the result is the same... the worms move up through it, have their fill, move back down into the soil and in doing so, in a process called bioturbation, turn your soil into a well mixed improved brew... best bit is there is not a single bit of digging to be done

Not suitable if you have ginger cats

Simon I think have read that too somewhere.
If you can get some old wool carpet, put it over where you want to plant then cut slits of crosses in it for the plants. It works sort of like a great weed mat.
No weeds to speak of and the worms come up to the surface. The carpet then breaks down over time .

Yup. That's what's been working for us on the areas that had the topsoil removed for the house site during the drought, leaving just crap clay. Just piled everything on top - newspaper, manure, topsoil, straw. A lot of (carpet) wool as mulch. I just add another layer or 2 of wool / manure / straw every year. Happy worms. (And happy me)
It's actually better in some of those places than the sandy "paddock" areas I planted some roses. We have hungry soil.

Hi Milly, I have really heavy clay soil in my garden as well, I just dig a hole a little larger than the rose, (or other plant) I intend on planting, get rid of the clay I have removed/dug out. I then fill it with a good organic potting mix, compost etc from the local nursery and plant away. My roses seem to doing well so far, actually when I bought a rose from a local nursery in town he asked where I lived, I told him and he said to me" roses will do really well out your way the soil is really heavy" the gardener was 83( he told me this as we loaded 90L of compost in my car) and has lived in town all his life, so I would think he knows what he is talking about.

I hope that wasn't in the passenger seat

Roses clay...

Milly, 'double digging' won't work for you with clay, all you are doing is moving one lot of clay from one hole to another.
The gypsum will take around a year to show up(don't quote me yet), will get proper answer on Friday from a fella that mines it here in Mudgee.
From all the above posts you have the ingridients for a good garden. If it was me I would start working on the next garden now so the soil will be ready for plants as it will have that 12 month time to improve.
When working with clay and other soils that are heavy if using a shovel/spade we leave a mirrored finish to the edges, always use a fork to scarify the lining edges so plant roots can break through it as well as water.
Last but not least IMO, I would open they bed up with a fork and then raise if possible, Regards David.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

The lasagna garden sounds like fun and I for one love lasagna:) I'll definately try that one. I can't imagine innocent little wormies being able to chew through carpet though - I take your word for it guys. Oh - and I have a black cat - so I should be ok

David - I figured that I wouldn't be planting anything anytime soon. I was hoping that the soil would be ready before next winter. I guess I'll just have to be patient! Thanks for the advice about double digging - I wasn't really looking forward to trying that one out.

I'm going to leave raising the bed as my last option. I'm an idealist at heart and want to give the soil a chance!

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Roses do very well in heavy clay and with a slow release organic blanket it will only get better and better over the years. I reckon it will be ready by winter too. Roses are one of the only plants that you can build a bed up around without worrying about things like collar rot. You can plant them and mulch right up to the 'trunks'. In a few instances I've gone back to some roses where I'd planted them with the graft exposed and back-filled in around them to bury it and raise the bed level by a good 15-20cm all around. The roses don't mind this and if the top is quite rich new feeder roots will be formed higher up to take advantage of all the extra 'food'.

This is the book I was talking about:

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