sudden collapse

 Oh, betsyw, love your description of 'rose divas' !!
On a sadder note ... I have just dug out a standard Iceberg that had valiantly attempted to overcome its prolonged sojourn in a supermarket sales. This was one of two bought out of pity - hate to see roses left behind (I've been known to pick up strays but now it's extended to roses). It's pair is flourishing but this one just couldn't fight anymore and gave up the ghost. Now I have to purchase a more expensive potted standard to replace it. Ahh, my hip pocket is hurting!!

I have been watching my 2 sick ones carefully, willing them to recover and puzzling about what the problem is. As I mentioned earlier, the new canes developed strongly, producing numerous buds only to wilt and wither when they they get to a certain height. New canes are going the same way. I looked again at Ausrose's post above and maybe I've stumbled onto something. Months ago when preparing that bed I discovered a large root (diameter 10cm) from the pine next door. I cut that root and painted neat Roundup on both surfaces. This was under the side fence approx 5m from the roses in question. The soil in that bed was dug to at least 50-60cm with no sign of that root. Could this root which probably goes under this bed but much deeper I'd imagine, contaminate the soil around the roses? Is there anything I can do? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

Silky, Roundup becomes inert in soil I believe.

OK. Thanks Roseman.

Silky i have read somewhere that roses are very sensitive to Roundup , could there have been any drift at all from the use of it somewhere else in the garden ?

Maree I'm very very careful with Roundup and only paint it on selected things, mainly suckers and invading roots from beyond our property. I never use it as a spray - just a whisper of wind and....you've blitzed some poor rose into oblivion.

I have been led to believe Round Up combined with a sticking agent can leave deadly residue in the ground over a period of time.

I didn't use any sticking agent, just concentrated Roundup neat, painted onto both cut surfaces of the pine tree.

Silky I was making a general comment about Round Up not necessarily related to your situation but more in reply to what David had written. Sorry for the confusion.

No worries Ausrose.

This might just be one of those gardening puzzles that is just sent to try your patience  

I spray with round up and the only time I have had any problems with it is when I sprayed some long grass without realising there were a couple of small azaleas in there. They copped it full on and did not survive. Had I known they were there I could have washed them off and they would have been fine.

I have accidently sprayed roses and washed them off and they showed no sign of being affected. I am sure there has been other times when spray would have drifted on to plants and have never had any issues with the stuff.

On what I have read and experienced Balinbear your are playing Russian Roulette.

Been doing it for years and as I said never had any problems. I do the garden every few months (depending on the conditions) and spray under plants all the time and I have never seen any issues (apart from at Azaleas). I don't cover the plants up or anything. If I do accidently directly spray a plant I will wash it off of break of the leaves affected but that's about the only thing I do.

I don't know, but maybe it has something to do with the type of roses we grow. Maybe they are more hardy than other types. We have a big garden and the roses while much loved are mainly left to their own devices. Quite possibly why the more sensitive modern rose types generally don't survive . I mean we must have the only garden in the world where Iceberg has refused to grow but then again maybe it got sprayed.

I thing about it all is that it is strange though that I have no problems spraying weeds but there needs to be a bloody good reason to spray chemicals on the roses.

Well Balinbear it must be a male thing , cause my husband is Roundup happy and i'm always at loggerheads with him over it , i've banned it and then he sneaks around with the sprayer and sprays the weeds when i'm not there GGGRRRHH , my garden is organic i tell him , and he says but Roundup isn't a real chemical , pull my other leg i say .....

Maree

I guess there is another non chemical method

.

Yeah on my husband lol haha !! 

I suspect a second RoundUp shooter on the grassy knoll.

No, seriously, I think the wind may have caused the damage, perhaps in small fractures to the big canes. It can't be a coincidence that my Ice Girl and silky's roses exhibited identical symptons roughly around the same time,  so far apart geographically, after we both had big wind hits.

At times I have had winds that would blow a blue cattle dog off a chain yet my roses have survived.

Yes, my rose survived, too, but the two biggest canes didn't. Hence I'm thinking that if it wasn't catastrophic root disrturbance, maybe then a microbreak

These roses we are talking about did they have a lot of bottom growth canes, "maybe water shoots" or just passed water shoots ?

Roseman, mine definitely were water shoots and all the ones affected had sprays of blooms either opened or about to. These were young plants that perhaps weren't as well anchored as more established plants would have been. I've noticed some dieback spreading out from original shoots.
Betsy I do hope Ice Girl makes a good recovery. I think my two will struggle for a while, and then recover or cark it. I'm giving them Seasol and that's about all I can do.

I am guessing from that Silky, it is more likely wind damage and an unstable root system IMO.

Yes that's what I suspected initially Roseman.

Silky , my mum who has been growing roses her whole life , always puts in a small stake , not too close to the trunk so that canes will rub and ties the base of the rose to it until it establishes itself , i do this most of the time when i remember , mum never sprays , doesn't really pamper her roses and they always look great , she's got a green thumb i think ..