Re: Total Phosphorus

by paulh 28th October 2012, 00:32

roseman wrote:Paul, can youy check with the chemist what the grms/Lt is, hopefuly something like 800.
At present I can't get all the info for anyone, it is the /this computer playing up. It ain't me

Having no luck getting sulphur from the chemist roseman,, I'll try few more tomorrow Total Phosphorus - Page 2 2254931222

by neptune 28th October 2012, 00:39

Manutec sell sulphur in 1kg pkts from Bunnings

by paulh 28th October 2012, 00:48

neptune wrote:Manutec sell sulphur in 1kg pkts from Bunnings

by paulh 28th October 2012, 01:12

neptune wrote:bugs sound like spider mite...get rid of them quickly...those 4 ph readings are way toooooooooo high....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...

Neptune..what sought of sulphur should I get to bring down the ph levels?? also what ratio would I apply it... Ta for your advice

by neptune 28th October 2012, 01:19

cheapest way....apple vinegar in a bucket of water ..test it till its about 4.0.....pour it in retest soil in a couple of days and redo.....

by paulh 28th October 2012, 02:05

neptune wrote:cheapest way....apple vinegar in a bucket of water ..test it till its about 4.0.....pour it in retest soil in a couple of days and redo.....

Neptune, does it have to be apple vinigar, or any type of vinigar???

How much vinigar would you use to say 9lt water??? and would you put the whole 9lt on 1 plant or more??? Gold Star Rating

by neptune 28th October 2012, 02:14

I use a ltr and a half for 200lts.....so do you have access to a swimming ph testing kit(there cheap)...

you can put 3lts in each pot....

by paulh 28th October 2012, 02:37

neptune wrote:I use a ltr and a half for 200lts.....so do you have access to a swimming ph testing kit(there cheap)...

you can put 3lts in each pot....

so I calculate that 1 1/2 lts vinegar to 200lts water works out
to be 7.5 mls to 1lt...would that be right? Total Phosphorus - Page 2 2254931222

by paulh 28th October 2012, 02:38

Oh and the type of vinegar

by Jac2 28th October 2012, 08:45

Great ideas here: use a solution of water and apple cider vinegar, 200 : 1 ½L or 1L : 7.5 mls., and use 3L of that on each rose bush; AND use cheaper swimming pool PH test kits instead of soil kits to test if the solution has a level of 4. I love it; this one goes straight into my organic solutions library.

by paulh 31st October 2012, 23:05

neptune wrote:bugs sound like spider mite...get rid of them quickly...those 4 ph readings are way toooooooooo high....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...

Hi neptune...just wanted to run some more ph levels past you,, needing some advice please Gold Star Rating

These roses are all in pots....

Magic Sunset ph 5.0
Honey D'jon 6 1/2
Peace 4 1/2
Mr Lincoln 5.0
Abracadabra 4 1/2
Gold Bunny 5 1/2
Freisia 7 1/2
Slim Dusty 6 1/2
Salmon Scentsation 6.0
Double Delight 5 1/2

by neptune 1st November 2012, 00:01

paulh wrote:
Hi neptune...just wanted to run some more ph levels past you,, needing some advice please

These roses are all in pots....

Honey D'jon 6 1/2....this one can stay at this or drop it a touch

Peace 4 1/2....don't let this drop anymore and you can raise it a bit

Abracadabra 4 1/2....as above

Freisia 7 1/2.... need to drop this one ..soil alkaline

Slim Dusty 6 1/2....same as honey d

Salmon Scentsation 6.0.....this is ok

because they are in pots , its easy to control the ph. During growing season , check the pots ph every month about the same time. That way you can control the ph in small incements

by paulh 1st November 2012, 00:04

neptune wrote:
paulh wrote:
Hi neptune...just wanted to run some more ph levels past you,, needing some advice please

These roses are all in pots....

Honey D'jon 6 1/2....this one can stay at this or drop it a touch

Peace 4 1/2....don't let this drop anymore and you can raise it a bit

Abracadabra 4 1/2....as above

Freisia 7 1/2.... need to drop this one ..soil alkaline

Slim Dusty 6 1/2....same as honey d

Salmon Scentsation 6.0.....this is ok

because they are in pots , its easy to control the ph. During growing season , check the pots ph every month about the same time. That way you can control the ph in small incements

Cool neptune...I appreciate the help ta very much Total Phosphorus - Page 2 2023066572

by paulh 1st November 2012, 00:22

[quote="paulh"]

neptune wrote:bugs sound like spider mite...get rid of them quickly...those 4 ph readings are way toooooooooo high....need to get them down between 5.5-6.5. Roses love slightly acidic soil. Melville rose nursery likes his down to about 4.5......not sure on that one,...but then again you can't dispute the quality of his roses...

bugging you again Neptune..if you can use apple cider vinegar to easily low ph...what can you use to easily raise the ph.. Total Phosphorus - Page 2 1303145595

by neptune 1st November 2012, 00:33

lime(from bunning)

by paulh 1st November 2012, 00:46

neptune wrote:lime(from bunning)

neptune

by neptune 1st November 2012, 00:50

by Balinbear 1st November 2012, 14:58

I'm not a chemist but I had understood that adding lime (or even better potassium carbonate which is soluble and penetrates the soil further) raises the soil PH by actually reacting hydrogen ions (the H in PH) and releasing them from the "acid" (in the form of Carbon Dioxide and Water) in the soil thus neutralising it and thus increasing the PH.

Similarly adding Apple Cider Vinegar to a high PH soil should reduce the PH level. The pH value, or acidity level, of apple cider vinegar is usually between 2.3 and 2.4 so it is quite acidic.

If I remember from Chemistry in Grade 8 you can neutralise an acid with and alkaline (or visa versa) but it also results in a salt and the composition of this salt would depend on the agents being used.

Now too much salt in the soil can be a bad thing so one would have to be sure of the resulting reaction. As I said I am not a chemist so I cannot say what salt and how much would result from too much treatment.

Despite what is written in many places that roses need a PH of 6 – 6.5 ours grow fine in soils down to Ph 4 (I had a 3.5 in one spot) and some varieties can no doubt handle it better than others. I am sure that there are roses that can handle a bit of alkaline soil as well.

Which leads me to once again to suggest that maybe we should look more to finding plants that suit our environment rather than trying to change it.

Gary

by paulh 1st November 2012, 15:09

Balinbear wrote:I'm not a chemist but I had understood that adding lime (or even better potassium carbonate which is soluble and penetrates the soil further) raises the soil PH by actually reacting hydrogen ions (the H in PH) and releasing them from the "acid" (in the form of Carbon Dioxide and Water) in the soil thus neutralising it and thus increasing the PH.

Similarly adding Apple Cider Vinegar to a high PH soil should reduce the PH level. The pH value, or acidity level, of apple cider vinegar is usually between 2.3 and 2.4 so it is quite acidic.

If I remember from Chemistry in Grade 8 you can neutralise an acid with and alkaline (or visa versa) but it also results in a salt and the composition of this salt would depend on the agents being used.

Now too much salt in the soil can be a bad thing so one would have to be sure of the resulting reaction. As I said I am not a chemist so I cannot say what salt and how much would result from too much treatment.

Despite what is written in many places that roses need a PH of 6 – 6.5 ours grow fine in soils down to Ph 4 (I had a 3.5 in one spot) and some varieties can no doubt handle it better than others. I am sure that there are roses that can handle a bit of alkaline soil as well.

Which leads me to once again to suggest that maybe we should look more to finding plants that suit our environment rather than trying to change it.

Gary

Thanks for that Gary

by silkyfizz 1st November 2012, 17:39

Putting this straight into my fix-it file.
Does it have to be apple cider vinegar?

by neptune 1st November 2012, 19:39

silkyfizz wrote:Putting this straight into my fix-it file.
Does it have to be apple cider vinegar?

it is the better one... Very Happy

by silkyfizz 1st November 2012, 19:41

by Jac2 2nd November 2012, 20:19

It’s true, Paul, if you’re adding different substances to change your soil PH you’re running the risk of creating unwanted byproducts. The salts could create a greater concern than the slightly out PH level in the first place. If you’re prepared to go through the trouble of taking regular PH tests and changing the level incrementally, wouldn’t it be easier to just change the potting mix with one that is especially formulated for roses and be done with it? And I’m not into buying products, because I’m having too much fun making my own soil, but all this PH testing sound awfully cumbersome. Also from what I’ve learned, roses actually grow very well in a wide range of PH levels, although slightly acidic gets the majority vote. However, I also recently read an article in our local Rose Society’s newsletter, in which the author suggested a PH level of 7 was ideal …

by neptune 2nd November 2012, 21:26

Soil pH has indirect yet far-reaching effects on plants. Plant nutrients become available or unavailable according to the soil’s pH level. Yellowing between the veins of young leaves indicates an iron deficiency, a condition arising not from a lack of iron in the soil but from insufficient soil acidity to put iron into a form that a plant can absorb. Most plants thrive in slightly acidic soil because that pH affords them good access to all nutrients.

The darker side of soil pH is plant poisoning. Too low a pH level can render the plant nutrient manganese available at toxic levels; geraniums are particularly sensitive to this, showing their discomfort with yellowed, brown-flecked, or dead leaves. A pH level that is too low also liberates aluminum—not a plant nutrient—in amounts that can stunt root growth and interfere with a plant’s uptake of nutrients. At a high pH level, the plant nutrient molybdenum becomes available in toxic amounts.

Soil pH also influences soil-dwelling organisms, whose well-being, in turn, affects soil conditions and plant health. The slightly acidic conditions enjoyed by most plants are also what earthworms like, as do microorganisms that convert nitrogen into forms that plants can use

by Jac2 2nd November 2012, 23:00

Yes, Neptune, that’s what I thought, too; just thought I should mention this comment, because it was published in The Queensland Rose Society’s newsletter, unless it was a typo, a PH of 7 was advocated by the author.
Maybe we could just plant a geranium next to our roses and keep an eye on its leaves, sounds like they could be a good indicator for straying PH levels.

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